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I think the poll could've had a distinction to include "Yes, but I'm ok with other vaccines".
As for norovirus, my entire workplace got it once. Out of 12 people, only the CEO and I managed to avoid it. When everyone else returned to work, they had all kinds of gruesome accounts of the illness.
It was the only time being sick has made me want to be able to pass out or crawl out of my own body so I could get away from it. The only other times I felt that way were my first round of natural childbirth and having a ruptured ovarian cyst that I can only imagine is what getting stabbed repeatedly feels like.
If Norovirus is what the flu feels like for other people, it's no wonder they get the vaccine.
The article gives some hints about the psychological roots of the "motivated reasoning" at work in anti-vaxers, but I'm not satisfied that it really explains much, so I'm still puzzled. The anti-vax attitude leads to actual deaths (thus it is not so vague or longer-term as the threat of climate change might seem), and the science is not overly vague or confusing in this case, yet somehow this particular conspiracy mindset has infected people on both ends of the political spectrum.
It’s not entirely puzzling.
The study seeks to identify psychological factors that motivate people to want to reject the science on vaccinations.
Instead; they studied people with a label: “Anti-Vaxers”.
Very few people who are labeled anti-vaccine actually consider themselves to be anti-vaccine & some of them are aware that epidemiological reviews of reviews that review ... are inadequate to lead to a scientific consensus.
The vast majority of those labeled as anti-vaccine are actually people who are once-bitten; twice-shy. When people are marginalized by a label that is not representative of them; you might be looking at propaganda. People with personal experience of an issue will be highly resistant to propaganda that goes against their experiences.
Which could also explain why anyone bothered to conduct a “puzzling” study; as highly educated intellectuals are typically the most susceptible to propaganda.
Source for the bolded?
Last edited by coschristi; 12-17-2018 at 11:26 PM..
I got a flu shot a few years ago just one time. I got the flu that year. I'd never been so sick and haven't hardly been sick since. No more flu shots, and Im 65. Same thing happened to my son who lives with us and my wife we all get very ill, and were incapacitated for several days.
You obviously have a skewed understanding of the risks vs rewards. And your surgery nonsense is a good example of it. Along with your understanding of why folks DO care if others get it.
What if I said...take this shot with a 30% odd of preventing a horrific flu. Now, lets just talk about death. 80,000 Americans died from the flu last year. Giving us a death rate from the flu of 1 in 4,000. Odds of dying from the flu shot? No one is really sure. Its so rare. The HIGHEST estimate I have seen is 1 in 500,000.
Now lets talk about non-death. Because as you point out, its only 30% effectiveness (which BTW is cherry picking statistics-it can be as high as 60% effective when they get the strains for the upcoming year right)...but lets use your cherry picked number anyways because it reveals the level of nonsense in your argument. 1-2% might experience a sore area where they get injected. Meanwhile the "30%" effective flu vaccine? It also makes those who do get the flu have lessened symptoms. Remember, 1 in 4,000 of us DIED last year from the flu. 1-2 in 100 might get a sore arm. BUT anywhere from 5 in 100 to 20 in 100 will get the flu. So....you are 2.5X to 10X more likely to catch the flu then to even get a sore arm from the flu vaccine. Yeah. And that sore arm will make you either not get the flu at all or if you do get it have much lessened effects from the flu.
Why do we care if others get the flu vaccine? Because people come to work. Because kids go to school. Because the more vaccinations, the less the flu is spread. If you lived on a island and your choices had no effect on others, no one would care. But welcome to society.
Well you got the vaccine so it works? You are perfectly protected, no need to worry about everybody else. Oh, wait. It doesn't work ... so brain scrambles ... uh uh uh .. well, big fallback argument ... people die. Um, no other people are stupid because they don;t want it. Um, wait. Wait was my provaccine argument again? Ohh YES let me quote CDC guestimates of something or other. Goalposts move every time a pro flu vaccine-er tries to make sense of the conflicting and ridiculous stats.
How about: No need to worry about other people's RIGHT to make choices that don't concern you. Eyes on your own paper.
PS. What source shows that there were a confirmed 80,000 deaths? That's right. CONFIRMED. I'll wait. Even if that 80,000 number were correct (it's not, btw, even the CDC admits that the number is just a guess), it was 0.0002% of the total population. Live in fear. Good gawd.
What would people do if they couldn't live in terrifying fear all the live long day? And get mad when others rely on common sense instead of fear? Oh, they post in C-D that the sky is falling if people don't get the flu vaccine.
PPS. My friend got the flu shot and wound up hospitalized from GBS.
Everyone has their stories. I had not taken a flu shot for many years. I was so sick from the flu last winter I thought I might die. Bit the bullet and had this year's shot (got the quad) back in October. So far so good. I did react a bit to the shot, achy and felt like I was coming down with a virus for a couple of days. That's not the flu, you can't get the flu from the vaccine, it was my immune system kicking in. Happens with some people. Others might simply have an achy arm. It was nothing compared to the illness I experienced last winter. I'll never skip a flu shot again.
I never remember them pushing the flu shot so much when I was growing up. I also agree...who the heck knows what's really in those shots. I also agree that their effectiveness is questionable.
I don't like Bill Maher, but every now again he nails it:
As a medical professional, nurse/paramedic, I am required to get a flu shot. I also get the pneumonia vaccine and the shingles vaccine. I watch my diet and exercise, I also try to maintain good hygiene such as hand washing etc. If they ever come up with a vaccine to combat chronic sinus infections, I will be the first in line. Even though I come in contact with all kinds of nasty things on a pretty regular basis, I generally stay healthy and can run a 5K in under 30 minutes which is not bad for some one over 65.
People not getting a flu vaccine and other vaccines, are the main reason so many people get sick during flu season, and, worst of all, people who refuse vaccines are the primary culprits to babies who contract diseases and viruses and ultimately die. I read a story on a baby who received whooping cough that was ultimately fatal, all because some adult was not up to date on their vaccines. Very irresponsible in this day and age to not receive a basic and cheap vaccine.
I’m also one who refuses to get it my wife feels the same. I used to get it and like most got the flu so I’ll pass when it comes to flu season. My mom was a nurse of 30 plus years and she was against it.
Even though your mom was against it, I'm hoping the hospital or clinic she worked at required her to receive one regardless? If not, it's probably illegal for her employer to not enforce that.
Most of those people are nutty anti-science liberals, who love to cherry-pick their science. They also believe that GMO's are bad for them, that fracking is a terrible thing (contrary to the evidence that it reduces greenhouse emissions), that 'natural' toothpaste is better for their teeth and worst of all that vaccinations cause autism.
These fools are the plague of society.
Why is this political all of a sudden?
Are you a conservative who refuss to accept data supporting climate change and the big bang and evolution and the fact that the Earth is not 6,000 years old???
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