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View Poll Results: Are you opposed to getting a flu shot?
Yes 94 38.06%
No 153 61.94%
Voters: 247. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2018, 06:04 PM
 
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I read something interesting and I believe it has some validity. I have already made it clear that I am not anti-vaccine. My kids got all their vaccines.

Now that said I saw someone note that it really isn't about not trusting vaccines, it's about not trusting the companies making them.

That I can understand.

 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,796,716 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I read something interesting and I believe it has some validity. I have already made it clear that I am not anti-vaccine. My kids got all their vaccines.

Now that said I saw someone note that it really isn't about not trusting vaccines, it's about not trusting the companies making them.

That I can understand.
I used to live in "Big Agriculture" country; let's call it "Big Ag". I've seen a lot of hinky stuff in the Big Ag business. However, I still eat.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:09 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,456,396 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
The vast majority of people who refuse to get a flu shot are the raging liberals who also believe that infant vaccinations cause autism, that 'natural' toothpaste is good for their teeth, yet fluoride in their water is bad for them, that GMOs are bad for them, that fracking is a net negative, etc.

In other words, liberals are anti-science and will believe any trend that they can jump on at any moment. The poor things simply cannot help themselves, as they are programmed to try to fit in with their contemporaries.
Ha ha ha ha, well, guess who Trump asked to head the panel on vaccine safety? LMAO, Robert Kennedy Jr.

Here are a few tid bits from old Robert:

“The CDC is a very troubled agency, and it’s not just me saying that. There have been four separate, intensive federal investigations by the United States Congress—a three year investigation, 2001, 2002, 2003, by the United States Senate, Tom Coburn’s committee, by the Inspector General of HHS in 2008, by the Office Integrity in 2014. All of them have painted the CDC as a cesspool of corruption, of an agency that has become an absolute subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry, and that has become a sock puppet, a spokesperson, a shill for the industry.”

“CDC is not an independent agency. It is a vaccine company. CDC owns over twenty vaccine patents. It sells about $4.6 billion of vaccines every year. And its primary metric for success in all the departments in the agency are vaccine sales. The groups, for example the Immunization Safety Office, where the scientists who are supposed to be looking at efficacy and safety in vaccines, they are no longer a public service…agency. They are subsumed in that metric: We have to sell as many of these things as possible. And so they do things to their science to make sure that nothing interferes—no information—interferes with sales.

“Now there are two divisions of the vaccine branch where we worry about the corruption. The first one is called the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. That is the committee that makes the decision about what new vaccines to add to the schedule.”

“When I was a boy, I got three vaccines. My children got sixty-nine vaccines. It changed in 1989.”

“Why did it change in 1989?”

“Because in 1986, Congress, [was] drowning in pharmaceutical industry money—pharma puts more money into lobbying than any other industry—Pharmaceutical companies have more lobbyists on Capitol Hill than there are Congress people.”

“Do you think oil and gas has big influence in the Capitol? Well, that’s the next biggest. The pharmaceutical industry puts twice into lobbying, double the amount that the oil and gas, and four times what defense and aero space put in. So they control Congress.”

“In 1986, Congress passed the Vaccine Act, and there were good reasons for them to pass it. …At that time vaccine companies were being sued and were threatening to stop making vaccines. [Congress] said, okay, we’re going to insulate them from lawsuits. They made it illegal to sue a vaccine company in this country, no matter how reckless the behavior, no matter how negligent, no matter how toxic the product, no matter how grievous the injury to the child, you cannot sue.”

“You know how badly the pharmaceutical industry behaves when they are being sued, when there’s a whole bar of lawyers who spend their whole life looking for ways to sue the pharmaceutical industry and tell these stories to juries, and how many billions every year are won from that industry.”

“What do you think would happen if all of a sudden, all the lawyers disappeared, all the class action suits, all the multi district litigation, all the depositions, all the document searches, the discovery? Just gone. Nobody can sue. You can make anything you want.”

“And then they made it so that it was much easier to get a vaccine on the schedule than it was to get a pharmaceutical into the market. There’s no double blind placebo studies. They’re all fast tracked into the market place.”

“The decision is made by this group, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. And you’d hope that the people who would serve on that committee would be kind of nerdy scientists who are narrowly focused on public health outcomes, but that’s not who they are. The people who serve on that committee, almost all of them, have strong financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry.”

“I’ll give you an example of how this committee works. In 1999, Paul Offit sat on that committee. And when you go to this committee, when you go to their meetings, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices is in one room, and then there’s a press deck in the next room. You have a whole bunch of seats there with guys who look like me, in suits. They’re Wall Street analysts, pharmaceutical analysts. They’re waiting to hear the decision. And as soon as they come out and announce which new vaccines they put on the schedule, those guys run out in the hallway and get on their cell phones, and you can watch the stocks spike. So it’s become an economic enterprise.”

“Paul Offit sat on the committee in 1999 that added the rota virus vaccine to the schedule. He owned a patent to a rota virus vaccine. He was then able to sell his vaccine to Merck for $186 million. He pocketed something around $29 million. He’s never allowed anybody to ask him exactly how much, but according to the formula that they use, he would have gotten at least $29 million.”

“That caused a little bit of a scandal in Washington, and the Inspector General of HHS was sent to investigate it. They did a complete investigation of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, and what they found, what they concluded was what he did was not illegal under CDC rules. Sixty-four percent of the people who sat on that committee had conflicts that were similar to Paul Offit, and ninety-seven percent might have conflicts because the rest of them never made out their conflict of interest forms. And nobody ever made them do it.”

“It’s very difficult when those kinds of shenanigans are going on. The American people have faith that all of these new vaccines that were added, beginning in 1989, are put there solely because this committee is concerned with public health.”
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:12 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,456,396 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I used to live in "Big Agriculture" country; let's call it "Big Ag". I've seen a lot of hinky stuff in the Big Ag business. However, I still eat.
Of course, you do! You have to. Hey, you should run over to Flint if you get thirsty. lol
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,796,716 times
Reputation: 35920
Actually, Trump says he never asked Kennedy to be on any "panel".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/u...ype=collection
This "panel" never happened. RFK, Jr. is still on the "mercury" kick, even though Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines 17 years ago. Kennedy likely last took a science course in high school.

That is a lie about Paul Offit.
https://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_...q-vaccine.html
Offit was not on the committee that added the old Rotashield vaccine to the schedule in 1998, not 1999. (Funny how antivaxers cannot get facts straight!) He had left the committee almost three years prior to them voting on Rotateq.
"A previous vaccine against rotavirus, RotaShield, was voted onto the US immunization schedule early in 1998 (note: before Dr. Offit was on the ACIP). He did vote to approve Rotashield for the Vaccines for Children program, which subsidizes vaccines for low-income families...The ACIP voted to approve RotaTeq in February 2006, two years and 9 months after Dr. Offit had left the committee."
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:22 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I used to live in "Big Agriculture" country; let's call it "Big Ag". I've seen a lot of hinky stuff in the Big Ag business. However, I still eat.
So you just simply trust Big Pharma where it comes to our health care?
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:34 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,456,396 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Actually, Trump says he never asked Kennedy to be on any "panel".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/u...ype=collection
This "panel" never happened. RFK, Jr. is still on the "mercury" kick, even though Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines 17 years ago. Kennedy likely last took a science course in high school.

That is a lie about Paul Offit.
https://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_...q-vaccine.html
Offit was not on the committee that added the old Rotashield vaccine to the schedule in 1998, not 1999. (Funny how antivaxers cannot get facts straight!) He had left the committee almost three years prior to them voting on Rotateq.
"A previous vaccine against rotavirus, RotaShield, was voted onto the US immunization schedule early in 1998 (note: before Dr. Offit was on the ACIP). He did vote to approve Rotashield for the Vaccines for Children program, which subsidizes vaccines for low-income families...The ACIP voted to approve RotaTeq in February 2006, two years and 9 months after Dr. Offit had left the committee."
Well, you dodged a bullet there, but I heard Trump dropped a bomb on vaccine mandates. It's a NO! NO! and a NO!

This is a tweet from Trump:
"Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!"

I guess we know where he stands on the issue and he is our president.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,796,716 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So you just simply trust Big Pharma where it comes to our health care?
Interesting logical fallacy you posted there. Did I say that? No, I did not. But even though Big Ag, Big Pharma, Big Auto and the like have their issues, I'm not going to refuse to use their products. I believe that is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:45 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,456,396 times
Reputation: 1755
[quote=Katarina Witt;53921710]Actually, Trump says he never asked Kennedy to be on any "panel".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/u...ype=collection
This "panel" never happened. RFK, Jr. is still on the "mercury" kick, even though Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines 17 years ago. Kennedy likely last took a science course in high school.


So, no Thimerosal in flu vaccines anymore? None in tetanus? None in the multi-dose Sanofi Menomune vaccine that's been approved?

So the CDC removed it all after they realized the amount of mercury in all those childhood vaccines in their little schedule exceeded the national and global max safety limits? All of it? And now no children or pregnant women get vaccines containing it?

Last edited by Tokinouta; 12-18-2018 at 07:01 PM..
 
Old 12-18-2018, 06:51 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Interesting logical fallacy you posted there. Did I say that? No, I did not. But even though Big Ag, Big Pharma, Big Auto and the like have their issues, I'm not going to refuse to use their products. I believe that is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
It's a question. Did I accuse you of that? No I did not. You seem awfully defensive.
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