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Funny you should make a point of this - you really haven't gone to look at his social media, have you?
It actually does contain a significant number of posts (not personal experiences from what I can tell, just quotes and that sort of thing) pertaining to black people experiencing racism. I have no idea whether or not this guy ever personally experienced racism, though my goodness, if I have, he probably has as well. Many people of many different skin tones have personally experienced racism and prejudice.
As for painting anything with a wide brush stroke, who is doing that? I'm being VERY specific. I am also very consistent on this board. I have spoken out against mistreatment and racism against people in the public eye (Freddie Gray, Trayvon Martin, anyone?). But I don't assume that just because these two people WERE wrongly killed, that every black guy who cries "Racism!" is being treated however due to the color of his skin. Sometimes their actions and words are part of the problem, sometimes not. Sometimes they're prejudiced, sometimes they're not.
So I look at what I can find about the individual - in ANY situation, not just these flash in the pan incidents - to put things in perspective. For instance, that idiot who shot Trayvon Martin. Should I look at only that one isolated incident, or look at the guy's life in general, his other actions, whatever? If I should look at the bigger picture in that case (which I did) why not in every case?
Why have you?
Seriously, what does his social media have to do with anything?
Quite frankly, this is some stalker behavior right here.
Absolutely creepy.
Seriously, what does his social media have to do with anything?
Quite frankly, this is some stalker behavior right here.
Absolutely creepy.
Oh brother - the links to his IG are everywhere, as well as his Twittering. Apparently a whole lot of his stuff is also public rather than private (I didn't log onto IG to see his stuff for instance - I just clicked on a link in a front and center, mainstream media account of events).
He MEANT to take this into the public eye on social media - mission accomplished I guess.
What does social media have to do with anything? Hmmmm - I think that's why, in job training classes, one of the first things teachers tell students is to CLEAN UP THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA. I think that's why crime investigators turn to social media posts for more information. I think that's why parents put parental controls on their kids' access to social media. I think that's why so many people pay (or should pay) attention to what their significant other or kids or whoever is posting. I think that's why when a friend kept posting articles and quotes about depression online, she appreciated when I reached out to her - it was insight into what was going on in her life.
Nice attempt at a strawman though. Oh wait, not really - too transparent.
I posted links to the information I "blamed" him on. And with my very racially diverse family, I stopped caring a long time ago about how I "look" to some people in this world.
Especially people online who don't know me.
Admittedly, I don't know you. I also don't know about your family and its relevance on a message board is zero, primarily because none of us know anyone else so we shouldn't be having a "Who's family is more diverse" measuring stick contest with one another.
What does matter is how we present ourselves, and no matter how diverse your family may be, you still come off as someone with inherent prejudices.
I work in hospitality management and I can tell you that the law aside, I would never allow my staff members to behave in this manner. There is a procedure that we follow. We check the key packet, we ask for last name, and when it turns out that that person -- regardless of who it is -- is a registered guest, we pat him on the back, offer him a bottle of water, and remove ourselves from the situation. Sometimes hubris gets in the way for some people. They handled this situation wrong and they're going to pay the embarrassing price for it. How anyone can remark differently reflects additionally on how good or bad their own customer relations would be in whatever business they're in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Oh brother - the links to his IG are everywhere, as well as his Twittering. Apparently a whole lot of his stuff is also public rather than private (I didn't log onto IG to see his stuff for instance - I just clicked on a link in a front and center, mainstream media account of events).
He MEANT to take this into the public eye on social media - mission accomplished I guess.
I might actually agree with you a little here, but only because I'm not naive and his responses were one in which he didn't mind allowing the situation to play out (I didn't actually review his social media). I've had incidents play out where I knew a guest wanted to capitalize on a situation. However, they played right into his hand! It is one of the most hapless, awful customer service performances I've seen in a while. They literally stand there after it is obvious that he's a guest instead of making a human connection and allowing the man to return to his business and for them to return to theirs.
So, yeah, it's difficult to victim blame here. He handled himself in a perfectly reasonable manner and they did not.
Of course, racism exists. And of course, no one's value or even sociological place should ever be determined solely by the color of their skin. And if white people don't think that slavery and the oppression of minorities in this country isn't still being felt, then let's see how quickly they'd be willing to change places with someone of color. Not someone rich and famous - just some regular Joe Schmoe just like them (us). For that matter, let's see how many people are willing to change places with a member of any protected class. Anti discrimination laws are on our books for a reason - because discrimination based on skin color, race, gender, disability, age, etc. STILL EXISTS and would run rampant if we as a society allowed it. Human nature over the course of history proves this. And no skin tone or culture is immune to practicing, or being the victim of, prejudice.
I live in the real world, a realistic world. That's why I taught my four dark skinned children to behave, to carry themselves with tact and good manners, to be polite and cooperative with anyone in any position of authority as long as their requests were lawful, to be tolerant, to treat others as they want to be treated, to NOT make assumptions based on skin color, ethnicity, gender, etc.
Wait - I would have taught lighter skinned kids the same lessons. Because those are just good basics for interacting in our society in a peaceful, kind manner.
You know what happened to me one time, standing in line in a cafeteria of all places, with all four of my dark skinned progeny lined up behind me? Some older, white lady came up to me and said, "I just want to tell you how impressed I am that you adopted all those kids." She said this right in front of my kids. And get this - she was trying to be nice. She meant this as a compliment to me. Now I could have gotten mad. I could have gotten sarcastic. I could have gotten on my high horse. But what I said was this - I laughed and said, "Well, thank you, but these are my own kids." She STILL didn't get it - she said then, "Oh, I know you consider them to be yours since they're adopted but I just mean I think it's so great that you adopted the whole family." (My kids do all look like brothers and sisters.) Oh my gosh! Well, all my kids' eyes were on me, that's for sure. So I just smiled again and said, "Yes, I do consider them mine, because they ARE mine. They sprang from my loins."
Let her chew on that a bit! I don't know what happened with her because we just walked off, but I thought it was funny, and I thought it ended well. I stood my ground but I didn't let her racism, which she probably wasn't even really aware of it was so hard wired into her, get under my skin or ruin our lunch. My kids were all like "Hey, Mom, what does that mean - sprang from your loins? What does that mean, what does that mean?" Great lunch conversation there!
There are ways to handle discrimination and prejudice without screaming and yelling and upping the ante.
Ok...I get it. Its "all about you and your dark skinned progeny". Your life, and the way you handle situation, is the model that the world needs to follow. You teach your kids the way things SHOULD BE TAUGHT. You got it all right and the world outside your anecdotes should be judged by YOUR LIFE. I mean, if you were not doing things perfectly and the way they should be handled....what would be the point of bringing it up?
Here is a pat on the back from me to you. That is what you really want right? To be patted on the back for a job "well done" and having dark kids that speaks for YOUR character as a person.
Admittedly, I don't know you. I also don't know about your family and its relevance on a message board is zero, primarily because none of us know anyone else so we shouldn't be having a "Who's family is more diverse" measuring stick contest with one another.
What does matter is how we present ourselves, and no matter how diverse your family may be, you still come off as someone with inherent prejudices.
I work in hospitality management and I can tell you that the law aside, I would never allow my staff members to behave in this manner. There is a procedure that we follow. We check the key packet, we ask for last name, and when it turns out that that person -- regardless of who it is -- is a registered guest, we pat him on the back, offer him a bottle of water, and remove ourselves from the situation. Sometimes hubris gets in the way for some people. They handled this situation wrong and they're going to pay the embarrassing price for it. How anyone can remark differently reflects additionally on how good or bad their own customer relations would be in whatever business they're in.
It's great that the opinions of some anonymous internet posters are just that - opinions, and worth exactly what we all paid for them. Yours included. And of course mine.
I have stated repeatedly (facts, not conjecture) that I feel that the hotel manager probably mishandled this situation. In theory, he should have done exactly as you described. But what we don't know is what happened leading up to the video between the hotel manager and the guest. We simply do not know what transpired because no one - not the hotel, not eyewitnesses, and not Massey - is talking about that.
So we have to go with what we do know - Massey's words, interviews with eye witnesses, the police report - that's the only evidence we can go by. So far what people who were there have told us is that Massey was on the phone, in the lobby, dressed very casually, feet up on the sofa, got irritated when he was interrupted by the security guard, did not know his room number, didn't give his name, didn't produce the key - till the manager showed up, and at some point he started filming. The police report states that by the time they got there, he was very angry and very loud - and maybe that was justified, who knows? Maybe the manager didn't handle it right, who knows? Maybe he tried, but Massey was already being loud and angry, who knows? WE DON'T KNOW.
Unless of course, you do know and in that case, PLEASE share your source!
Ok...I get it. Its "all about you and your dark skinned progeny". Your life, and the way you handle situation, is the model that the world needs to follow. You teach your kids the way things SHOULD BE TAUGHT. You got it all right and the world outside your anecdotes should be judged by YOUR LIFE. I mean, if you were not doing things perfectly and the way they should be handled....what would be the point of bringing it up?
Here is a pat on the back from me to you. That is what you really want right? To be patted on the back for a job "well done" and having dark kids that speaks for YOUR character as a person.
Ugh, no thanks. Now THAT was weird.
You are missing my point, hopefully intentionally but who knows?
Anyway, yes, there are ways to be more diplomatic and to defuse situations instead of upping the ante and the tone and being inflammatory. My hunch is that both the hotel manager and Massey slept through that class in life.
You know what - I've always been pretty unpopular with racists, because I call it out when I see it - from ANY source. Don't assume that just because I'm a middle aged white lady, that I won't call someone's hand for being a racist - I've done it time and time again in real life, and that sometimes really surprises people. For instance, I'm very active locally regarding changing the name of a high school around here (one that is named after a Confederate general). Well, that stance ticks some folks off. I'm active in various race relations organizations locally - but I'm not a Democrat, and that ticks some folks off. My ancestry is chock full of slave owners and Confederate soldiers, but I think and have always thought that slavery is a despicable institution and absolutely unjustifiable and I've always said that, even in situations with family "historians" who were so "into" the supposed honor of the Confederacy. That's ticked some people off. Oh well.
So many people simply cannot manage to think objectively - they start with assumptions and agendas and the minute you question or give a different perspective, they jump at you with insults and accusations. I actually had a coworker come up to me one time and whisper, "OK, you're really a Democrat, aren't you?" As if that would be something shameful or crazy. I just so happen NOT to be a Democrat, but believe me, her whispered words were just as weird to me as any inconsistent political platform (and yes, I think political platforms in general tend to be very inconsistent). I said, "Well, no, actually I'm not a Democrat, just for the record," and she said, again whispering fiercely, "Oh, I think you are - and you better not let your customers know that!" What? I was a top salesperson and I always have been - I'm not worried about what some customer might think about my political beliefs - that's not the level I was interacting on with them and I refuse to make it some sort of litmus test.
Same with skin color. But that doesn't mean I don't observe behavior carefully - from everyone. I gather facts and information and only then do I come to a determination. Behavior, demeanor - all that tells me a lot about a person. Not everything, but a lot. Insight. It's a good thing.
I think you are a person with good intentions who consciously tries to go against the grain of racism, however, you might not fully grasp what racism is......like a many whites. You can only act against YOUR DEFINITION of racism However, what if your definition is incomplete and or flawed? Hence, you give a pass to things that fall through the gaps of your conscious definition. You might not even realize your own subconscious racism, if you have it, because you have defined racism as such to exclude yourself. I mean....after all.....a racist would not have "dark children". Well...Thomas Jefferson might have.
Your investigation of his social media background is very suspect to me, especially the things you found that you choose to focus on, like him being married and traveling a lot and having poor grammar, despite claiming to be college educated. To me, things that would make him suspect would be a history of claiming racism. Did you see that in his social media about any other incident except this one?
I’m sure there are cases where stupid things happen to people of other races but they ain’t clickbait.
True that! I was asked to leave a hotel lobby once because they said I cannot sit in a lobby for an extended time period. I was waiting on friends who were running late. Also at the same hotel years later I parked my car in their garage and went into the hotel to use the bathroom and right away when I went looking for it they said "restrooms are for hotel guest only". Sometimes it's not racism but a stupid policy or workers.
I might actually agree with you a little here, but only because I'm not naive and his responses were one in which he didn't mind allowing the situation to play out (I didn't actually review his social media). I've had incidents play out where I knew a guest wanted to capitalize on a situation. However, they played right into his hand! It is one of the most hapless, awful customer service performances I've seen in a while. They literally stand there after it is obvious that he's a guest instead of making a human connection and allowing the man to return to his business and for them to return to theirs.
So, yeah, it's difficult to victim blame here. He handled himself in a perfectly reasonable manner and they did not.
I agree that they allowed themselves to be manipulated, and I haven't ever stated that the hotel manager did not deserve to be terminated because heck, maybe he did. But I don't know that Massey "handled himself in a perfectly reasonable manner." The police report implies otherwise, but he was a guest, not an employee, so he's not held to the same professional standard. And he didn't break any laws - and he was not arrested either.
You know, regarding social media - I think it's interesting how difficult it is to actually AVOID reading it, with all the news coverage. There is commentary and even actual reporting all day every day about what people say on social media. It either counts or it doesn't - can't have it both ways. Personally, I think social media is insight into a person's psyche whether it's truthful or not. But I digress.
True that! I was asked to leave a hotel lobby once because they said I cannot sit in a lobby for an extended time period. I was waiting on friends who were running late. Also at the same hotel years later I parked my car in their garage and went into the hotel to use the bathroom and right away when I went looking for it they said "restrooms are for hotel guest only". Sometimes it's not racism but a stupid policy or workers.
Were you wearing a sign that noted you didn't have a room there?
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