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It is not theft if you receive something in return. The government provides protection and a commitment to justice. We also receive education, transportation, safe food, employment protection and enforcement of contracts to name a few.
Being a citizen comes with rights and responsibilities. You have a right to protection and certain services but also a responsibility to pay taxes (even if you don't like it). You have a right to vote but a responsibility to accept the result even if your utopian ideal of a minimal state isn't a reality.
Protection is covered in the Constitution and is one of the 18 enumerated powers. That also includes protection from anyone entering this country in a manner not covered under immigration law.
Education is paid for by property taxes in most districts and should not receive any federal funds.
Transportation - I assume you mean roads. Also covered in the Constitution and should be paid for by gas tax for interstate and US highways. Under the last stimulus plan, my city installed 2 stop lights with a grant from the federal government. That isn't right. I'm sure someone in California doesn't want to pay for a stop light in MS the same way I don't want to pay for their high speed rail.
Safe food - The FDA is redundant agency since every state has their own. Plus it is not called for in the Constitution.
Why do I need protection from my employer? And if I do, that is state or local.
Contract law is state or lower as well.
I understand that I have to pay taxes but I want to pay for things that the chartering document and legally passed laws call for and nothing more.
Secondly, how is it even moral when you accept money that you didn’t earn to pay for your own bills? I can understand if the money is from your relatives, but not from a stranger.
Are you talking about healthcare or education, which I mentioned or utility "bills."
Morality involves knowing/doing what is "right" or "wrong" (good or bad).
For me, it is good/right to ensure people have their medical needs taken care of and it is good/right of a society to be educated.
IMO neither healthcare or education are "bills."
I also have no overt fascination with being against "force." Force is necessary for existence if we are going to get technical. Everyone is forced to do something they don't want to do.
I'll pay my share. As should every one who is able.
I agree. The OP does not agree.
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You obviously don't know much about ranching. I've built a bunch of my own roads.
I have not said a word about ranching, I simply gave some examples of government funded public services. You obviously have not built all the roads you have used.
And now you can again. Are you forgoing your health insurance? Let's see that conviction to your beliefs. Cancel your socialist health insurance policy. Or is that just more big, bad talk?
Why would I cancel a voluntary association that serves my rational self-interests? All of my insurance providers and I have a mutually beneficial arrangement we each agreed to in what is called a policy. We were both free from coercion when we signed our respective dotted lines, and we have each lived up to our part of the bargain ever since. Not really sure what is proven by a voluntaryist needlessly severing voluntary associations that serve his interests?
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Originally Posted by Enigma777
Yes--which is why the uninsured did not care. They could just check themselves into the Emergency Room and let everyone else pay. So others do, in fact, end up paying sooner or later for those ER parasites who are too 'ruggedly individualistic' to bother with health insurance.
And the reason for that is meddling by Leviathan. They force health care providers in various capacities to work without regard to compensation. You blame that issue on the uninsured, but it wasn't the uninsured forcing every ER and the larger hospital system to eat the costs of the uninsured. Nope, that was and still is government force. That's why uninsured people with sniffles go to ERs. They know they'll get over because Leviathan demands that they must. If an ER said nope, you are just sniffly, go see urgent care, minute clinic, etc and gtfo, and was allowed to say that, then fewer people would be in ERs for non-emergency crap. But Leviathan, you see, uses their monopoly on force and violence to tell ERs they cannot do that, and they then tell you that you have to pay.
Don't blame that crap on me, btw. I am insured and the last time I was in an ER was because I almost died from septic shock and pneumonia, and my insurance covered all of my costs including the original urgent care bill and my ambulance ride. That was 15 years ago, and minute clinics and my PCP have been working fine ever since.
Also, why blame the guy advocating that YOU SHOULDN'T BE FORCED TO PAY for this stuff, who also advocates paying his own way and never forcing anyone t pick up his slack? HowTF am I the problem? I voluntarily fund my HSA, my health/dental/auto/life/home insurance, and every other aspect of my life, and via taxation, fund a bunch of crap for other people as well. I'm not your problem. I am what is referred to as a "self-sufficient individual who does not burden his neighbor." And my position is that nobody should force you to pa for that which you do not wish to pay for. Always unclear why that makes me the bad guy?
Why would I cancel a voluntary association that serves my rational self-interests? All of my insurance providers and I have a mutually beneficial arrangement we each agreed to in what is called a policy. We were both free from coercion when we signed our respective dotted lines, and we have each lived up to our part of the bargain ever since. Not really sure what is proven by a voluntaryist needlessly severing voluntary associations that serve his interests?
You'd cancel it because you're participating in a socialist program. You don't have an agreement with just your policy provider. You also have it with everyone else who has a policy with them. You all pay into a pool and those funds are used to pay out each other's claims. You pay a fraction of your cost for your medical services because other people pay the difference. That's the very definition of socialism.
Please let us know when you plan on cancelling your socialist policy.
Is it morally acceptable to you to force other people to pay for your bills like your living expenses, healthcare, education and child rearing?
Life is what you make, if you don't plan it properly or live it responsibly nobody should be forced to pay for your mistakes. It is only right to help people who go through hard times when they're unemployed, and that should only last for a short time not a life time.
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