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View Poll Results: Is it morally acceptable to you to force other people to pay for your bills?
Yes, I love it! 16 16.84%
No, it morally repugnant. 77 81.05%
I don’t like it but it’s nice someone pays for my bulls 1 1.05%
I don’t know. 1 1.05%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-20-2019, 07:17 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Was just about to say this. Nobody is forcing the OP to live in America. If you morally object to being an American, then you are a hypocrite if you don't leave.
Leaving isn't as easy as you think. One has to APPLY to the Fed Gov to rescind one's citizenship, and if the Fed Gov thinks one is doing so to avoid paying taxes, that application is denied. Consequence: One remains a US citizen and is taxed on income regardless of wherever in the world it's earned and wherever in the world one lives.

The US and Eritrea are the only two countries in the world that tax income (and for the US, corporate profits) regardless of wherever in the world it's earned. Why else do you think Warren Buffett did the Burger King tax inversion?
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:23 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
It is not theft if you receive something in return. The government provides protection and a commitment to justice. We also receive education, transportation, safe food, employment protection and enforcement of contracts to name a few.
Sounds good until you realize that 45% of all US 1040 filers pay no federal income tax whatsoever and still get all those same benefits for free.

Quote:
Being a citizen comes with rights and responsibilities. You have a right to protection and certain services but also a responsibility to pay taxes (even if you don't like it). You have a right to vote but a responsibility to accept the result even if your utopian ideal of a minimal state isn't a reality.
Then tax EVERYONE, not just some US 1040 filers.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:34 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Yes, It's called being in a society. Is it morally responsible to expect your neighbor to send their son or daughter off to die in a war to protect you when your kids are abled bodied?
If so, why isn't every US 1040 filer required to pay federal income tax? 45% pay none whatsoever.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
7,195 posts, read 5,730,901 times
Reputation: 12342
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I don’t think it is acceptable for other people to pay for the roads.
That's interesting. Do you never leave your own private property?
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:41 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
FICA may be sold as insurance, but if so its the only insurance policy I've heard of where the total of premiums is less than the total benefits paid - as if they were reading the actuarial tables upside down when it was design. Most people have received far more in benefits than they paid, but clearly that is unsustainable. Let's call Social Security what it is - the world's largest Ponzi Scheme.
Most people retiring now actually LOSE money on SS. The only people who get more back than they've ever paid into SS are the low-income.

Quote:
"As recently as 1985, workers at every income level could retire and expect to get more in benefits than they paid in Social Security taxes, though they didn't do quite as well as their parents and grandparents.

Not anymore.

A married couple retiring last year after both spouses earned average lifetime wages paid about $598,000 in Social Security taxes during their careers. They can expect to collect about $556,000 in benefits, if the man lives to 82 and the woman lives to 85, according to a 2011 study by the Urban Institute, a Washington think tank.

Social Security benefits are progressive, so most low-income workers retiring today still will get slightly more in benefits than they paid in taxes. Most high-income workers started getting less in benefits than they paid in taxes in the 1990s, according to data from the Social Security Administration."
Social Security is a LOSING deal for most workers - Associated Press
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,278,490 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
FICA may be sold as insurance, but if so its the only insurance policy I've heard of where the total of premiums is less than the total benefits paid - as if they were reading the actuarial tables upside down when it was design. Most people have received far more in benefits than they paid, but clearly that is unsustainable. Let's call Social Security what it is - the world's largest Ponzi Scheme.
Doesn't matter how its run, it's own literature describes itself as insurance. Therefore qualified beneficiaries are receiving due payments, exactly like a private insurance paying those same payments.

We wouldn't complain about State Farm having to eat a financial SNAFU, FedGov doesn't get a break because they're as competent as a troupe of baboons.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:50 AM
 
13,606 posts, read 4,937,539 times
Reputation: 9690
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Most people retiring now actually LOSE money on SS. The only people who get more back than they've ever paid into SS are the low-income.

Social Security is a LOSING deal for most workers - Associated Press
Thanks for sharing that. So those retiring after 1985 are on the bottom rung of the Ponzi scheme. They will never get back what they paid in, but instead have transferred wealth to those on the upper rungs (the older generation). Every Ponzi scheme has a tipping point; the only way to sustain it is to get more suckers to join. With our low birthrate, the only way we're going to do that is through immigration.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:51 AM
 
11,404 posts, read 4,088,583 times
Reputation: 7852
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Is it morally acceptable to you to force other people to pay for your bills
Isn't that what America just did for tens of thousands of farmers in the $8 BILLION bailout after Trump's failed trade war caused them to suffer record losses?
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:03 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
Isn't that what America just did for tens of thousands of farmers in the $8 BILLION bailout after Trump's failed trade war caused them to suffer record losses?
That's nothing compared to the $2 trillion bailout Fannie and Freddie got from the Federal Reserve while the rest of us got shafted by having to continue to pay our mortgages as we signed on to do.

Think about it... The Federal Reserve, which created $2 trillion worth of QE out of thin air to buy F&F MBS. $1.6 trillion worth is STILL on the Federal Reserve's H.4.1. And it matters not one whit to the Federal Reserve if that's never paid back. Those MBS will just roll off the Federal Reserve's H.4.1 as they mature, paid or not. We'll never know because the Federal Reserve doesn't have to recognize or state losses. They just reduce/erase the line item on their H.4.1.

And that all happens WHY? Because that $2 trillion to buy F&F MBS was created with just key strokes and can be erased/deleted just the same without anyone losing any money. The only negative result is the QE used to buy them which can never be unwound.

Oh, and just for grins... Tens of thousands of mortgage borrowers, if not more, will get their homes for free as this all continues to play out and their mortgage debt just rolls off the Federal Reserve's H.4.1, unpaid...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/b...k-expires.html

You're in WAY over your head on this. You've been scammed and you don't even get it. /SMH
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Doesn't matter how its run, it's own literature describes itself as insurance. Therefore qualified beneficiaries are receiving due payments, exactly like a private insurance paying those same payments.

We wouldn't complain about State Farm having to eat a financial SNAFU, FedGov doesn't get a break because they're as competent as a troupe of baboons.
And a SNAFU of their own making, no less.
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