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While I'm not sure as to how accurate BBC murder mysteries are concerning the UK's homicide rate , the UK is definitely ahead of certain countries ( including the States ) with respect to particular " traditions " that relate to violence such as bare knuckle brawling .
" Hardman " type characters like Lenny McLean/Lew Yates/Viv Graham most likely don't have their American equivalents , because British working class culture has a totally different view of what's manly when it comes to " taking care " of one's problems .
The way I've heard it explained to me by those Liverpool " old heads " I used to see now and again in a pub over there that I used to hang out at , is that it's seen as downright effeminate to use guns to handle your problems ( including defending yourself ) when one can use their fists .
So really present day British legislation concerning firearms seems to be reinforced by deeply held cultural attitudes among a significant segment of the populace , which hold that " shooters are for poofters that can't fight " , that is it's not just the arguably very much nanny state tendencies of the British government which come into play when examining the state of firearms legislation in the present day UK .
Well, A and B.
A: If I am fighting, especially HtH, I am putting the other person in the hospital......and it is up to the Fates if it is the ER or the morgue. To me, inwardly (personally) and outwardly (as the courts might see it), fighting HtH is a deadly force situation and should only be used when deadly force is called for........I don't fight for fun.
B: In psychology class, we had the exercise of "You want to kill someone. Do you kill them from a distance, knock them over the back of the head, or do them in eye to eye?" The psychological answer is one of the first 2 because most people don't have it in them to take a life looking someone in the face.
Me, we-ll......I could take them out at a distance.....ONLY if the cops think I am associated in any way, they are going to see in my background check that I am a professional shooter, and they will be knocking on my door, say, shortly..
Knock them over the back of the head? I could do that (ambush is not really my style but out turning and attacking on the backside is) but with what I know about trace evidence, there will be enough left behind to associate me.
Curiously enough, when I was in NROTC, my ballet style of fighting, the attacking from behind, was seen by the men as cowardly, unhonorable.........but an Infantry General set me straight. "There is no honor in a street fight.".
Eye to eye, cheek to cheek? That both reflects on my prideful, professional prowess and my femme fatale romantic nature ......
don't need a telephone to tell you
Won't send a letter in my place
I want to be eye to eye, yea, baby
I wanna be face to face
...........but once again, there's that trace evidence and even more DNA left behind.
...........................I guess I just better learn to live with them.
A: If I am fighting, especially HtH, I am putting the other person in the hospital......and it is up to the Fates if it is the ER or the morgue. To me, inwardly (personally) and outwardly (as the courts might see it), fighting HtH is a deadly force situation and should only be used when deadly force is called for........I don't fight for fun.
B: In psychology class, we had the exercise of "You want to kill someone. Do you kill them from a distance, knock them over the back of the head, or do them in eye to eye?" The psychological answer is one of the first 2 because most people don't have it in them to take a life looking someone in the face.
Me, we-ll......I could take them out at a distance.....ONLY if the cops think I am associated in any way, they are going to see in my background check that I am a professional shooter, and they will be knocking on my door, say, shortly..
Knock them over the back of the head? I could do that (ambush is not really my style but out turning and attacking on the backside is) but with what I know about trace evidence, there will be enough left behind to associate me.
Curiously enough, when I was in NROTC, my ballet style of fighting, the attacking from behind, was seen by the men as cowardly, unhonorable.........but an Infantry General set me straight. "There is no honor in a street fight.".
Eye to eye, cheek to cheek? That both reflects on my prideful, professional prowess and my femme fatale romantic nature ......
don't need a telephone to tell you
Won't send a letter in my place
I want to be eye to eye, yea, baby
I wanna be face to face
...........but once again, there's that trace evidence and even more DNA left behind.
...........................I guess I just better learn to live with them.
I don't subscribe to the line of thinking I referenced previously myself , it just goes some way in explaining what sort of cultural factors permit the UK to have fairly strict gun legislation IMO .
FWIW I do believe I've read that part of the reason as to why Japan has strict firearms legislation to this very day is also due to cultural attitudes which view firearms as the weapons of cowardly , dishonorable , and effeminate individuals .
As an aside different cultures obviously react differently to such phenomena , as evidenced by the example of former Czechoslovakia where weapons laws became quite liberal precisely as the result of " hardman " types intimidating ordinary civilians .
Many of the gangsters engaged in extortion over there in the 90's were after all ex professional sportsmen and as such happened to obviously be much physically stronger than the workaday small business owners they were fond of extorting , which was a major impetus for the enactment of current Czech/Slovak firearms legislation which allows for all respectable citizens to obtain shall issue CCW permits ( in the case of the Czech Republic ) as well as shall issue home defense permits that business owners can also use when at their business premises in the case of Slovakia .
In short the cultural or societal attitudes behind a country's firearms laws should never be overlooked when it comes to these types of discussions IMHO , which is something many Americans seem to forget when discussing our Anglo cousins across the pond .
I was shocked when my Irish wife told me about this. She said a van with antennas on it would travel the streets of the town and they could tell if someone was watching a TV and that you had better have a license to do so or you were fined. Crazy. I don't think they do this anymore.
As for guns my brother in law had a shotgun and Ireland made it so difficult for him to keep it through the ever increasing fees and red tape that he eventually gave it up. It just wasn't worth it.
As for England banning guns, did they also ban Evil? I recall that they have had a rash of knife attacks, a few bombs on buses and the ever popular drive your car onto the sidewalk to run people over. They put in bollards and barriers around Parliament and other tourist spots to prevent this.
The US is NOT England and as another mentioned, we fought a war for our Independence from the King but the Left would have us right back to that type of rule as long as they were the ones in charge...
I was shocked when my Irish wife told me about this. She said a van with antennas on it would travel the streets of the town and they could tell if someone was watching a TV and that you had better have a license to do so or you were fined. Crazy. I don't think they do this anymore.
As for guns my brother in law had a shotgun and Ireland made it so difficult for him to keep it through the ever increasing fees and red tape that he eventually gave it up. It just wasn't worth it.
As for England banning guns, did they also ban Evil? I recall that they have had a rash of knife attacks, a few bombs on buses and the ever popular drive your car onto the sidewalk to run people over. They put in bollards and barriers around Parliament and other tourist spots to prevent this.
The US is NOT England and as another mentioned, we fought a war for our Independence from the King but the Left would have us right back to that type of rule as long as they were the ones in charge...
Lots of countries have television licences including Ireland itself.
As for the UK licence, alternatives are currently being examined, as is decriminalisation, whilst in terms of the £1,000 fine, that is a maximum, and Magistrates usually issue far lower fines.
I'd bet many of the Politicians and the Queens family have Armed security.
It always goes back to good enough for me but not for you.
Worse.....wasn't there a massive disarment in post WWI of all the survivors of trench warfare......and not many of the upper class fought in the trenches?
While I'm not sure as to how accurate BBC murder mysteries are concerning the UK's homicide rate , the UK is definitely ahead of certain countries ( including the States ) with respect to particular " traditions " that relate to violence such as bare knuckle brawling .
" Hardman " type characters like Lenny McLean/Lew Yates/Viv Graham most likely don't have their American equivalents , because British working class culture has a totally different view of what's manly when it comes to " taking care " of one's problems .
The way I've heard it explained to me by those Liverpool " old heads " I used to see now and again in a pub over there that I used to hang out at , is that it's seen as downright effeminate to use guns to handle your problems ( including defending yourself ) when one can use their fists .
So really present day British legislation concerning firearms seems to be reinforced by deeply held cultural attitudes among a significant segment of the populace , which hold that " shooters are for poofters that can't fight " , that is it's not just the arguably very much nanny state tendencies of the British government which come into play when examining the state of firearms legislation in the present day UK .
The use of guns in the UK was never really tolerated, and the police always prioritised armed crime, with some police units such as the Flying Squad (Sweeney) more than ready to deal with the very worst criminals.
In terms of historic events The Siege of Sidney Street in 1911 demonstrated the British attitude to armed criminals, and the armed Latvian Gang were pinned down in a house in Sidney Street in Stepney. An excited Home Secretary called Winston Churchill went to the scene, and was seen with a shotgun slung over his shoulder.
Churchill orders a detachment of Scot Guards Soldiers from the Tower of London, and then a second with a maxim machine gun.
The ensuing gun battle resulted in the building burning down, however those inside were left to burn with the building, with the fire brigade told to hold back and to let them burn.
The gun culture was different in the UK, however guns are not banned, and there are plenty of competitive shooting ranges, as well as local army reserve ranges, whilst the hunting and culling of animals, as well as pest control requires the use of rifles or shotguns.
In terms of criminals, the razor fights depicted in programmes such as the Peaky Blinders were the main type of weapon, especially in relation to the racecourse rackets and protection.
Italian Charles "Darby" Sabina ran the racecourse rackets for a number of years, however there was a big battle at Epsom and Sabin's gang were ousted by Billy Kimber and his Birmingham Boys (one of the main rivals of the Peaky Blinders), although there were numerous gangs at the time.
Kimber's Birmingham Boys were eventually replaced by the likes of Billy Hill and Jack Spot, who in turn were replaced by the Krays and the Richardsons etc etc.
The Krays were actually decent boxers, and they fought at the Royal Albert Hall, with Reggie Kray being good enough to have been a professional fighter.
The Krays always had close links to the boxing world, and were friends with the likes of Joe Louis, Sonny Liston and Rocky Marciano, who they would take down to the local east end boys clubs. The Krays were also been linked to the murder of British boxer Freddie Mills.
Last edited by Brave New World; 07-30-2022 at 06:53 AM..
I used to watch these videos on YouTube about that. They would have these " TV license goons " show up at people's homes, climb over privacy fences and peek in their windows to see if they were watching TV. It was funny how some of the people were out-smarting them.
........The gun culture was different in the UK, however guns are not banned, and there are plenty of competitive shooting ranges, as well as local army reserve ranges, whilst the hunting and culling of animals, as well as pest control requires the use of rifles or shotguns.
Yes but as you say, the culture.
How would it be thought of a home owner with a .45 USP, an AR-15, tens of magazines, and 10K rounds of ammo in their house (talking on the very lite side)? (a constant thought, placing myself in all those Brit mysteries I watch)
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