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At the end of the day, this is America. Everyone should be able to live wherever they want without worrying about "will I be accepted or will I be ostracized?". I thought America was supposed to be for Americans, all Americans.
I live in an area that is plurality white and Jewish. In my 250-home townhouse development we have a mixed black-white couple, a few Uzbeckis, a few Romanians, quite a few Chinese and Koreans. We all manage to talk to each other and know each other's stories. I don't see what the big deal is, frankly.
I live in an area that is plurality white and Jewish. In my 250-home townhouse development we have a mixed black-white couple, a few Uzbeckis, a few Romanians, quite a few Chinese and Koreans. We all manage to talk to each other and know each other's stories. I don't see what the big deal is, frankly.
You get along with different people just fine. And so do I. I was responding to an individual who claimed that I had an "entitlement mentality". I said "A person should be able to live wherever they want without getting treated like they don't belong". In response, someone claimed that I had an "entitlement mentality".
There is more to my other post as well. I brought some of those details up because there were some things I wanted to talk about, in terms of belonging.
You are taking me back to 8th grade here, but I remember that 40 years later. Funny, the things the brain recalls.
Did she realize the n-word was meant to be a pejorative against black people before Atticus explained it to her? Or are we projecting modern values onto her? I cant say that I know the answer to that for sure.
She certainly realized that n lover was meant as a pejorative.
I read "To Kill A Mockingbird" in 9th grade. I remember doing a project for it. This was over 20 years ago. I still remember one kid in class bold enough to call me the "N" word right in the classroom.
I also think Scout knew when her father was being called "(N-word) lover", it was meant to be an insult. She had a child-like way of understanding it. I don't it was projecting modern values. We still have individuals full of hate today. Harper Lee wrote the book in the 1950s. I don't see it as "modern values". I see it as having a child-like understanding of right and wrong.
That sounds pretty entitled to me. Would a white American feel like he belongs in a Hispanic neighborhood? Would he move his family there? Probably not.
I did just that and it was fine. Actually my second favorite neighborhood I've ever lived in. I only moved away because I had to for work.
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Originally Posted by Futuremauian
I asked G-M to clarify who he was talking about when he described "some people" as being "ignorant" (4 times in one paragraph).
He didn't respond so I assumed "white people who prefer to live around other white people" was correct.
Now you've stepped in to tell me I was wrong, but ALSO didn't answer the question.
Since the answer was clear to you, please enlighten me.
Well, you know what they say about assumptions. No one owes you an answer, especially when you don't seem to be asking in good faith.
I'm not trying to speak for GM, but if there's a town where almost everyone is ethnically Sokovian and folks are pretty insular, and you're a visiting Madripooran, you'll encounter people who are ignorant about your culture and history. Some of them will be ignorant only due to lack of exposure and will be welcoming anyway, and although they might say some ignorant things, they're not trying to be unkind. Others, OTOH, might persist in willful ignorance because it supports their prejudices. Those you have to be careful about because they can turn hostile.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
I live in an area that is plurality white and Jewish. In my 250-home townhouse development we have a mixed black-white couple, a few Uzbeckis, a few Romanians, quite a few Chinese and Koreans. We all manage to talk to each other and know each other's stories. I don't see what the big deal is, frankly.
There are places where the minority population numbers wise is low but the minorities there are very assimilated into American culture and aren't part of a separate subculture.
There are also "diverse" places with large numbers of each race but they all live and socialize separately and do not have a common culture.
Being a minority, being Black American in particular, there are certain things I have to consider when living somewhere. For starters, I'm not going to move somewhere without a job lined up. Another matter is how I will be perceived by the locals. I have to think about this because how I'm treated could be a factor in me deciding to be part of that community. I don't want to go somewhere, and then find that the locals don't want me there. That is really something I have to consider. For me this isn't some "woke" concept. This is about stuff I've dealt with and making sure I know what I'm getting into.
Speaking as a minority I will say this.....
1. It is MUCH easier for a person of color to live and fit in in a 90% white community than for a white person to fit in and be accepted in a 90% black or Hispanic community. There are highly assimilated minorities in places like rural Kansas, West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. In fact, West Virginia is one of the least racially divided states I know of, even though the minority population is low. When the minority population is so low that you can't really have a a separate community or subculture, there is just a dominant culture that everyone assimilates into. However a white person would never be accepted someplace like New Orleans East, West Baltimore, South side of Chicago, Detroit, Laredo, or Miami or in the Latin barrios of Los Angeles.
2. In terms of how "you are treated" .....there is hardly anywhere in America in THIS day and age where you're actually at a serious risk of a hate crime or called a racial slur to your face, where your physical safety would be in danger. A black person can stop in almost any town in America, including in the middle of Montana or in a holler in Eastern Kentucky, and not worry about his physical safety. HOWEVER the same isn't always true for a white or Asian person in a black neighborhood in places like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. Its much safer for a black person to go into a honky tonk bar in rural Louisiana than for a white person to go to a bar in New Orleans East. I can see how some white people say there really should be a reverse "Green Book" now.
3. How you are accepted often depends on yourself and how assimilated you are. And beyond race it goes into your culture (which is separate from color), lifestyle, religion, etc. Let's say a Muslim refugee family comes to my community, they don't speak English, they wear the burka, make all their kids wear the burka, etc. Nobody is going to burn a cross on their lawn. Nobody is going to physically attack them and we will be civil and polite with them. But we're probably not going to be friends since there is not much in common with us. Now if someone moves here from another state or country, regardless of their color, goes to church with us, assimilates into our lifestyle, hobbies, music, values etc then we will accept this person as one of us.
Some of the most "diverse" places are the most strife filled both in the U.S. and abroad. New York and California are really all about competing, unassimilated groups each focused on their own group identity, and often seeing themselves in competition with other groups, often living in separate parts of town and not sharing a common culture. A homogenous country like Japan sees less conflict than a "diverse" country like Iraq, Israel, Bosnia, etc. especially when these countries don't encourage the various ethnic and religious groups to assimilate into a single national identity. The former Soviet republics with smaller ethnic Russian populations mixed in with natives aren't dealing with the problems that Ukraine has now.
At the end of the day, this is America. Everyone should be able to live wherever they want without worrying about "will I be accepted or will I be ostracized?". I thought America was supposed to be for Americans, all Americans.
Accepted and ostracized are both subjective. You can’t force anyone to hangout with you.
A black 25 year old millionaire professional athlete has nothing in common with his rich white and Asian neighbors. Are they supposed to be golfing buddies and have lunch dates as they discuss the economy?
At the end of the day, this is America. And everyone has a right to associate who they want to associate with.
Everyone rich black person has the ability to move to Atlanta, or out the country, if they hate white people so much. Yet LeBum James doesn’t have any house there, shocking.
If you want to be a “victim,” it’s best not to move next to your “oppressors.”
1. It is MUCH easier for a person of color to live and fit in in a 90% white community than for a white person to fit in and be accepted in a 90% black or Hispanic community. There are highly assimilated minorities in places like rural Kansas, West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. In fact, West Virginia is one of the least racially divided states I know of, even though the minority population is low. When the minority population is so low that you can't really have a a separate community or subculture, there is just a dominant culture that everyone assimilates into. However a white person would never be accepted someplace like New Orleans East, West Baltimore, South side of Chicago, Detroit, Laredo, or Miami or in the Latin barrios of Los Angeles.
It's funny that you mention Laredo because that wasn't the town I lived in in Texas, but it was a very similar one in terms of location, demographics, and overall character, in the same region. It was fine. I mean, you can doubt that I was "accepted," but I made good friends that I'm still in touch with, an active social life, did well at work, was friendly with my neighbors, etc. I'm not sure what more to ask for in terms of "acceptance."
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2. In terms of how "you are treated" .....there is hardly anywhere in America in THIS day and age where you're actually at a serious risk of a hate crime or called a racial slur to your face, where your physical safety would be in danger. A black person can stop in almost any town in America, including in the middle of Montana or in a holler in Eastern Kentucky, and not worry about his physical safety. HOWEVER the same isn't always true for a white or Asian person in a black neighborhood in places like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. Its much safer for a black person to go into a honky tonk bar in rural Louisiana than for a white person to go to a bar in New Orleans East. I can see how some white people say there really should be a reverse "Green Book" now.
Eh. Until I moved to Alaska I'd never resided in a white-dominated community (besides college) and I've never been threatened for my race, including in Detroit. The occasional comment or hostile vibe, sure, but nothing that felt dangerous. I know my experience isn't universal, and that women are also less likely to get into public conflicts, but I think you're overstating the risk level. Honestly, the only people who've ever threatened me with violence or done violence to me have been white, which aligns with statistics about violence in the US, which mostly occurs within one's own ethnic or racial category. In some ways I suspect being white has actually been a protective factor...predatory types go for people they can get away with hurting, and law enforcement/the legal system/public sentiment tend to be patriarchally protective about middle class white women.
I read "To Kill A Mockingbird" in 9th grade. I remember doing a project for it. This was over 20 years ago. I still remember one kid in class bold enough to call me the "N" word right in the classroom.
I also think Scout knew when her father was being called "(N-word) lover", it was meant to be an insult. She had a child-like way of understanding it. I don't it was projecting modern values. We still have individuals full of hate today. Harper Lee wrote the book in the 1950s. I don't see it as "modern values". I see it as having a child-like understanding of right and wrong.
"N-Lover" clearly she understood that to be an insult. The n word itself? I dont know. It may have been written in the 50's but it was a depression era story. I think the n word was still pretty widely used by white people during that time period, sometimes with malice, but sometimes not. Hell, I remember old people in the 1970's using that word as a regular part of their vocabulary who had no clue they were saying anything wrong. As a kid I would sometimes correct them, and they would yell "What the hell are you talking about!" LBJ is a good example. Listen to some of the tapes of him having his "normal" conversations. So I could easily see people in 1930 using the word without any malice behind it, just out of ignorance.
1. It is MUCH easier for a person of color to live and fit in in a 90% white community than for a white person to fit in and be accepted in a 90% black or Hispanic community. There are highly assimilated minorities in places like rural Kansas, West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. In fact, West Virginia is one of the least racially divided states I know of, even though the minority population is low. When the minority population is so low that you can't really have a a separate community or subculture, there is just a dominant culture that everyone assimilates into. However a white person would never be accepted someplace like New Orleans East, West Baltimore, South side of Chicago, Detroit, Laredo, or Miami or in the Latin barrios of Los Angeles.
2. In terms of how "you are treated" .....there is hardly anywhere in America in THIS day and age where you're actually at a serious risk of a hate crime or called a racial slur to your face, where your physical safety would be in danger. A black person can stop in almost any town in America, including in the middle of Montana or in a holler in Eastern Kentucky, and not worry about his physical safety. HOWEVER the same isn't always true for a white or Asian person in a black neighborhood in places like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. Its much safer for a black person to go into a honky tonk bar in rural Louisiana than for a white person to go to a bar in New Orleans East. I can see how some white people say there really should be a reverse "Green Book" now.
3. How you are accepted often depends on yourself and how assimilated you are. And beyond race it goes into your culture (which is separate from color), lifestyle, religion, etc. Let's say a Muslim refugee family comes to my community, they don't speak English, they wear the burka, make all their kids wear the burka, etc. Nobody is going to burn a cross on their lawn. Nobody is going to physically attack them and we will be civil and polite with them. But we're probably not going to be friends since there is not much in common with us. Now if someone moves here from another state or country, regardless of their color, goes to church with us, assimilates into our lifestyle, hobbies, music, values etc then we will accept this person as one of us.
Some of the most "diverse" places are the most strife filled both in the U.S. and abroad. New York and California are really all about competing, unassimilated groups each focused on their own group identity, and often seeing themselves in competition with other groups, often living in separate parts of town and not sharing a common culture. A homogenous country like Japan sees less conflict than a "diverse" country like Iraq, Israel, Bosnia, etc. especially when these countries don't encourage the various ethnic and religious groups to assimilate into a single national identity. The former Soviet republics with smaller ethnic Russian populations mixed in with natives aren't dealing with the problems that Ukraine has now.
Well stated truths!
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