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That's why I'm taking a hiatus from posting in them now. All the discussions eventually run into: statement "nuh-uh", response "uh-uh", countered with "nuh-uh". Oh so enlightening.
First off, I take exception to that statement! I enjoy repeating myself on the immigration threads. And I know everyone else enjoy hearing me remake my point.
As far as gay marriage, much of the talk on this thread has been about gay marriage excluding moral views. Unfortunately, in a very practical way, you can't take morality out of the discussion. We have many laws that are totally founded in moral views. I have mentioned some earlier: prostitution, drug use, necrophilia. Everyone can accept that these do have some broader social detriment. That effect is usually caused by exploitation.
This is why gay marriage is so controversial. Sure they deserve the legal benefits of marriage, but many cannot accept the view that two men or women should marry each other.
You can try to circumvent it by giving them legal rights, but not as part of a state-sanctioned marriage; calling it a union, or some other name. This is a whole new problem. Now, all those legal rights, inheritance, health care, tax benefits, etc are open to exploitation.
I think this is the crux of the issue. You will find it overwhelming to convince people to accept the morality of same sex marriage, and you create a number of potential problems by changing those legal rights but calling it something other than marriage. Rock and a hard place.
San Francisco is a circus?? What have I been missing?! Seriously, have you spent any time in this city? Some people seem to think it's one big gay-pride parade, which is totally not the case... sure, the Castro district has rainbow flags a-flyin', but they don't exactly have sex in the streets. People are just more free to be open, without having to worry about as many negative reactions; but as any gay person (or friend of a gay person) can tell you, most of them live "normal" daily lives, just like any hetero.
We do have our share of drag-queens, transsexuals, etc., but that's a very small population... and I love San Francisco for giving them a place to live, where they can proudly walk down the street without constantly being attacked & ridiculed. I recently saw a 6-foot-something drag queen in SF, and all I said was "Not fair! Why can't I have those legs??"... the guy I was with just laughed, and told me I was still prettier - LOL. (though I think he was lying, since she was gorgeous)
Yes, I have spent much of my youth in San Francisco before it earned it's City by the Gays name. Sorry I dindn't put that label on it so, don't throw stones at me!!! They don't need to have parades to show gay pride.
I believe this is what gets people to thinking all of the city is that way.
I love the city but, it has changed to a very Liberal city. Nothing like in the 60's and 70's. I am familiar were it once was to what it is now.
I was just thinking about how funny it is that we are all arguing this issue now...
I know one gay couple who have been together for over 25 years.
25+ years ago, it wasn't so acceptable to be gay and there were a lot of homosexual people who ended up "married" to straight people. As it became more and more acceptable to be "out of the closet," a lot of these marriages broke up and the people in these initially acceptable marriages found more suitable partners.
Somehow, we are valuing one-year of straight marriage, even if it's a sham marriage, more than we value 25 years of a committed partnership between two same sex people.
I dunno, but just doesn't seem right to me. I think the "sham" marriages devalue the concept of marriage more than the union of two people who truly love each other, even if they are the same sex.
I was just thinking about how funny it is that we are all arguing this issue now...
I know one gay couple who have been together for over 25 years.
25+ years ago, it wasn't so acceptable to be gay and there were a lot of homosexual people who ended up "married" to straight people. As it became more and more acceptable to be "out of the closet," a lot of these marriages broke up and the people in these initially acceptable marriages found more suitable partners.
Somehow, we are valuing one-year of straight marriage, even if it's a sham marriage, more than we value 25 years of a committed partnership between two same sex people.
I dunno, but just doesn't seem right to me. I think the "sham" marriages devalue the concept of marriage more than the union of two people who truly love each other, even if they are the same sex.
lol. So true. Like Bitney Spears 52 hour marriage. Or her second marriage that faired a lil longer. What a joke!
My point is...so many Americans are caught up in other people's business. It's just plain nosey and intrusive...they need to concentrate on their own marriage and keep it out of divorce court.
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Seriously, have you spent any time in this city? Some people seem to think it's one big gay-pride parade, which is totally not the case... sure, the Castro district has rainbow flags a-flyin', but they don't exactly have sex in the streets. People are just more free to be open, without having to worry about as many negative reactions; but as any gay person (or friend of a gay person) can tell you, most of them live "normal" daily lives, just like any hetero. 
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