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I agree. Unfortunately, here's the problem as I see it. They (the gay community) can't vote out the incumbent liberal politician, because they know the conservatives won't help them in any way. What they need to do is find a new liberal they believe they can trust, and help push him or her through to challenge the incumbent. Then, if they (the new liberal) doesn't do what they want, find another. It's only two year terms. It's faster to go through politicians like that then to hope and wait to see if they ever push the agenda of the gay community through.
I agree the Rep party will never do it but the incumbent Dems must be replaced with men/women of action not speech after speech.
I practice what I preach. In my area for Congress the choices were 2 corrupt do nothing crooks one from each party. I emailed both parties and told them I would not vote for such a candidate sadly the masses even though agreed did not voice their opinion.
It was first time in my voting life that I did not vote for either candidate and sadly no other choice.
No she wasn't and if you think so, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
A boy being raised by two women is not being taught what it means to be a male. I live in an area where there are many boys without fathers.
It is an area where crime is relatively high. An area where these boys respect no one!
Well I guess they weren't father figures then, were they?
Warning!: If you are going to compare dysfunctional families to same sex couples then you are simply making my point.
And you are hurting same sex couples.
I am comparing healthy hetero couples to healthy same sex couples because that is what this conversation is about.
Now take a deep breath and start over.
You are implying causation when really you're observing a correlation. Perhaps this crime and lack of respect has more to do with one parent working a lot just to get by and rarely gets to see their kids. Kids left to their own devices can get into trouble. That scenerio has no relevance to same sex parents.
I oppose Gay Marriage yet I do not oppose a legal, loving and committed union between a same sex couple. My opposition is based on the terminology. Marriage, for generations, has long been defined legally and culturally as a union between a man and a woman. A spiritual and legally binding ceremony to unite a same sex couple in an equally valid institution should be termed something other than marriage. I recognize that some might view my position as semantics but I respectfully disagree. I do feel that to invalidate the traditional definition of marriage, rather than creating an equally binding parallel ceremony, lessens the value of the very thing they seek.
My vote was not to support pain and hate. I embrace the tradition of marriage and truly welcome same sex couples to initiate their own.
Any marriage in the eyes of the state, the eyes of the law, is a civil union. The state should have nothing to do with a religious union, or "marriage." All marriages, gay or straight should be "civil unions" and it is up to a church to decide what kinds of unions it will recognize.
I don't recall anyone ever teaching me about marriage in school. There was no lesson about what marriage is or is not, or what kind in ok. Why would that change if same sex couples were allowed to marry? I don't think the "they would have to teach it in school" argument is valid.
Any marriage in the eyes of the state, the eyes of the law, is a civil union. The state should have nothing to do with a religious union, or "marriage." All marriages, gay or straight should be "civil unions" and it is up to a church to decide what kinds of unions it will recognize.
Even incest or 10 wive marriages??? Sure hope not.
Even incest or 10 wive marriages??? Sure hope not.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not referring to anything other than 2 consenting adults of any gender entering into a legal union. This thread is about gay marriage, not incest or polygamy.
Okay... first of all.. stop with the bigot. You're a bigot for saying those of us that don't think of you as a goddess are bigots. So, stop the stupid, immature name callling. The only reason I'm addressing this is to one LAST time make you think intelligently instead of a "save the whales" seven-year-old in addressing my posts.
LOL.. I'll call it as I see it.. Plain and simple.. you voted to take away a groups rights because you don't like THEIR choices .. choices which, by your own admission, does not hurt you!
First of all.. there are NO contradictions in my posts. So you've pointed nothing of the kind out. Quit stroking yourself.
LOL.that's because you conveniently ignored them. Anyone reading my answers to your post will see the contradictions plain as the nose on your face. Did you NOT say you can not vote on a hypothetical..and then cite as a reason for voting against gay marriage was because of hypothetical situation of churches suddenly being forced to perform all types of ceremonies..LOL.. Your reasons for voting against gay marriage were FULL of hypotheticals.. LOL OH.. and then there is the statement that you make that you did not say that kids can suddenly be taught to BE gay but that it can be impressed upon them? You're either gay or your not gay.. it's not learned, taught or impressed.. it just is..
Heterosexualism has been impressed upon boys every day.. didn't make the ones that are gay heterosexual.. so why would the opposite apply..LOL
But.. if it makes you feel better to think you weren't contradicting yourself you go right ahead. Other posters will read right through it.
Do you agree I have a right to vote or not? Does it really matter what I base my vote on? If you vote on gun control, one way or the other, you vote on your beliefs... regardless of the foundation. It doesn't make your vote any less valid.
Again.. you have the right to vote.. doesn't mean that what was brought up to vote was right. .that's what you dont' get.
Say.. after 9-11 we all weren't feeling so warm and fuzzy toward the Muslim religion. I'm sure at that moment we all felt that we didnt' want them here for a little while.. (although calmer heads prevail later).. so if we bruoght up a vote and majority voted to kick out all Muslims from the U.S and the majority voted YES>. does that mean that it was right? NO .. of course not.. Yes.. you have a right to vote.. but the propositino should never have been brought up in the first place.. and eventually it will be overturned because it violates civil rights
You are trying to take away my right to vote based on your notion of what is right or wrong. In my way of thinking, that's hypocritical, and takes away any foundation you have to stand on. But I'll indulge your rantings even further.
No.. I'm not trying to take away your right to vote.. that is a load of crap..LOL.. I'm not opposed to the fact you VOTED .. I'm opposed to the whole Idea that an unconstitutional propositino was even brought up for a vote in the first place. Get the difference????
You keep arguing that gay or lesbian marriages don't hurt me in any way. My point is two fold. First: I never said that. I challenge you to find out where I ever said it did. Secondly, it doesn't matter. I have the right to vote without even having to know what the topic is.
LOL.. okay.. so it doesn't hurt you.. so then WHY deny them their rights if what they want to practice doesn't hurt you. AND YOU attempted to answer my OP.... I never said YOU said it hurts someone.. my point is it doesn't..
But then YOU brought up "laws" passed and why we pases them .. going back to the speeding thing.. and I demonstrated those laws or prohibitions were neccesary because otherwise harm could come to others.. whereas gays being allowed to marry harms no one.. and you even admit that.. still you want to deny them their civil rights ..in doing so you are harming THEM when they never harmed you to begin with.. by your own admission!!!
Let me reiterate the bottom line one last time in an effort to reach through: Your original post said "Why are you against it?" I said "Because I don't approve of the lifestyle." I didn't say they don't have rights. I didn't say they can't do that. I didn't say it's because it will harm me.
Still doesnt sufficiently answer the question of why deny gays the right to marry. I don't approve of Muslim beliefs on religion..so if there is a proposition to ban Mosques should i vote to ban them simply becasue I dont' agree with the Muslim lifestyle? NO.. that's ABSURD!! THAT is my entire point and THAT sir is the bottom line.. LOL..
Don't like the lifestyle.. fine.. don't live it.. but don't you dare take away the rights of somoene that does live that lifestyle and is fine with that lifestyle.. it's not fair, it's not just and it is a violation of their civil rights.. I wont deny YOU YOUR lifestyle simply because i disapprove of it
You don't have to agree with my vote, but you have to respect if as MY right to cast it as I see fit. If you want reasons (as you asked) shut up and listen. If you want to debate the morality of it, start another thread.
Done here!!
Glad your done.. I'm not.. I respect that you dont' agree with the gay lifestlye.. I respect that it's not part of YOUR belief system.. what I cAN'T nor won't EVER respect is that you will remove someone else's civil rights because YOU don't believe in their lifestyle.. It's ridiculous and doesn't warrant any kind of respect.
I hope that you are not home schooling Tristan. Your posts have to be read several times in order to be understood.
I type fast.. and i'm ADHD... and again type fast.. so lots of mistakes and no patience to go back and double check it.. LOL ...
It's also hard to not type fast when there is so much rolling out of my brain on the topic. I'm just incensed at how any one group thinks they have the right to deny another's civil rights simply because they don't like their lifestyle..
Makes me sad for how backwards and narrow minded that thinking is.
right to deny another's civil rights simply because they don't like their lifestyle..
Quote:
remove someone else's civil rights
You keep going on & on about "rights". "taking away their rights" Where is it stated in the constitution there is a "right to marry" The answer is nowhere.
As I stated ealier:
There is no "right to marry".
There is a right to equal protection under the law. Under current law, everyone, regardlesss of sexual orientation, can enter into a marriage with an individual of the opposite sex. Period. Everyone has the same, equal, abilty to do so under the law.
If you do not wish to exercise the legal option of marrying someone of the opposite sex, you may enter a domestic partnership. Domestic partnership provides (in California) all the same legal standing, rights and priveleges as a marriage in the eyes of the law. Everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, of legal age has access to this opportunity as well.
Everyone is being treated equally. No one is being denied or stripped of their "rights".
Prop 8 is an argument over semantics. Calling a couple's relationship a marriage or a partnership. That's it. Every "married" gay couple can still enter into a domestic partnership and there lives will be know different then they wher then when they were "married".
Why would marriage be meaningless if gay people are allowed to marry? I am a woman, married to a man and it would not impact my marriage one bit. Often straight marriages are totally meaningless, this does not depend on the gender of those that are married, but on their level of commitment. I had not intention of ever producing offspring... but still chose to get married.
That is perfect.
A SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE GENDER OF THOSE THAT ARE MARRIED, BUT ON THEIR LEVEL OF COMMITMENT TO EACH OTHER.
nuff said
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re teaching gay marriage in school...
