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Old 02-26-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I am a gun owner and a conceled weapons permit holder, so your assesment if incorrect.
You seem like so many gun enthusiasts, you like YOUR guns and care little about those you do not....

I think IF the object was to stop crime,restricting pistols would make more sense.....
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the over penetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition. The hollow point cavity in the .40S&W round filled with material when shot through the wall. This caused [these bullets] to fail to expand when they entered the gelatin. As a result, they penetrated 8.5" farther than when shot directly into the gelatin.
When the .223 [HP] was shot through he wall it began to fragment and as a result penetrated the gelatin only 5.5".
Because the .223 [HP] begins to break up on impact, it has less potential for damage or injury than the 12 ga. in the event of a ricochet. The .223 [HP] is obviously safer in an urban environment than the 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot.
Additional testing conducted proved that the .223 would penetrate a car door or glass. The .223 rounds fired into windshields began to break up after entering the glass and did not retain much energy. In most cases these rounds split in two.

Olympic Arms, Inc. - Real World .223 Testing
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,668,310 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Again, it was the FBI testing this.

But use your own tests of shooting through plywood placed close together if it makes you feel better....

Again,if such calibers are so dangerous in urban environments,why do LE agencies regularly issue them to its officers???
I already know it will travel through multiple walls, so there is no need for further testing.

And unlike you, the LE officers also know its dangers and have been trained to use them, and trained not to use them in given places and situations. Don't get me wrong, the AR15 is a fine weapon, but in hands of people who do not realize the power or the weapon it can be a true tragedy, and can indeed result in a pile of dead kids two or three rooms down the hallway.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
A recent Mesa Police Department study shows that rifle rounds pose less of an over penetration risk than do handgun rounds; one curious effect is that some hollow point projectiles will hit a drywall and have their cavity fill up with the material and subsequently act as ball-rounds. When walls are made of cinder block or brick the study has shown that rounds will not penetrate and no penetration occurs using defensive handgun and .223 caliber rifles. So the myth of a round going through the house walls then the neigbor's car and finally their TV-set remains exactly that - a myth.
Bullet Penetration Article - Scottsdale Gun Club
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,668,310 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Yes, the hollow points are much safer. I am glad you are now looing into this. We may have prevented a tragedy.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I already know it will travel through multiple walls, so there is no need for further testing.

And unlike you, the LE officers also know its dangers and have been trained to use them, and trained not to use them in given places and situations. Don't get me wrong, the AR15 is a fine weapon, but in hands of people who do not realize the power or the weapon it can be a true tragedy, and can indeed result in a pile of dead kids two or three rooms down the hallway.
For you to think LEO's are somehow better trained in the use of firearms shows a disconnect from reality.

Most LEO's only practice with their weapons when forced to....
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, the hollow points are much safer. I am glad you are now looing into this. We may have prevented a tragedy.
Actually NOT if going through sheetrock....

Quote:
one curious effect is that some hollow point projectiles will hit a drywall and have their cavity fill up with the material and subsequently act as ball-rounds.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,668,310 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
I think IF the object was to stop crime,restricting pistols would make more sense.....
I never argued about the ban's effect of crime.

PS I don't favor bans.

PPS I always wanted to buy an AR15, but they are too expensive.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
134 posts, read 318,112 times
Reputation: 99
Mexican drug cartels are getting their assault weapons from the USA and outgunning the Mexican police. If this helps to stop the flow and prevent a huge country next door from becoming a failed state, I'm all for it.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,880,765 times
Reputation: 2519
Then what are you arguing???
Apart from how a .223 will go through the entire neighborhood killing everyone....

IF the law being proposed doesn't accomplish anything meaningful beyond depriving citizens of their 2nd amendment right,what is the point of it???

Laws should have a stated purpose,it should be shown HOW the law will meet its purpose and whether the cost is worth the price.

Seems this proposed law does nothing.
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