Eric Holder: Obama will try to reinstate 'assault weapons' ban (dictators, terrorists)

[oz in SC]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

Mexican drug cartels are getting their assault weapons from the USA and outgunning the Mexican police. If this helps to stop the flow and prevent a huge country next door from becoming a failed state, I'm all for it.

Where can you,as a US citizen buy a grenade?
Or an automatic rifle?

Also the Mexican police are armed with automatic rifles,how are they outgunned?

[Frank_Carbonni]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

Mexican drug cartels are getting their assault weapons from the USA and outgunning the Mexican police. If this helps to stop the flow and prevent a huge country next door from becoming a failed state, I'm all for it.

Mexico's problems are Mexico's problems and the police are outgunned because they are seriously under-funded (the Tijuana police department drives American police cars that were no longer considered road worthy) and there have been cases of Mexican police officers selling their department's weaponry to those drug cartels.

[ViewFromThePeak]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Yes, this is correct. The AK fires 7.62x39, while standard NATO round is the longer 7.62x51.

Whereas the 5.45 tumbles wildly in human flesh, but does not fragment like the 5.56 sometimes does (.223 does not really fragment at any distance).

I'm convinced the 5.45 is the true "poison bullet" (as the Afghans called it when fighting the Soviets) regardless of what controlled experiment Fackler conducted. The only problem is that if you don't get a high quality barrel, 5.45 can often "keyhole" in your target.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by oz in SC

Then what are you arguing???
Apart from how a .223 will go through the entire neighborhood killing everyone.....

That's pretty much it.

And that the ban seems to be a re-activation of Clinton assult weapon ban, and not a ban on all pistols, like someone suggested. I was just clarifying things here until you sidetracked me with the .223 wall penetration issue....

I am not sold on the argument that we need to ban our assult weapons in order to cool down gun crime in Mexico. Why should be sacrofice anything for the Mexicans? We already gave then a lot of money so they can fight the gangs.

[DLK55]

From H.R. 4296, The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)

SEC. 2. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.

(a) RESTRICTION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subsection.

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

`(A) any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the firearms, specified in Appendix A to this section, as such firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993;

`(B) any firearm that--

`(i) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action;

`(ii) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(iii) is an antique firearm;

`(C) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of ammunition; or

`(D) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

The fact that a firearm is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that paragraph (1) applies to such firearm. No firearm exempted by this subsection may be deleted from Appendix A so long as this Act is in effect.

`(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

`(A) the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;

`(B) the transfer of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer to an entity referred to in subparagraph (A) or to a law enforcement officer authorized by such an entity to purchase firearms for official use;

`(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm, of a semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or

`(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.'.

(b) DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--

`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms, known as--

`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);

`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;

`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);

`(iv) Colt AR-15;

`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;

`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;

`(vii) Steyr AUG;

`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and

`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

`(iii) a bayonet mount;

`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

`(v) a grenade launcher;

`(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

`(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

`(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

`(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

`(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

`(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

`(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

`(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.

(c) PENALTIES-

(1) VIOLATION OF SECTION 922(v)- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of such title is amended by striking `or (q) of section 922' and inserting `(r), or (v) of section 922'.

(2) USE OR POSSESSION DURING CRIME OF VIOLENCE OR DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME- Section 924(c)(1) of such title is amended in the first sentence by inserting `, or semiautomatic assault weapon,' after `short-barreled shotgun,'.

(d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS- Section 923(i) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: `The serial number of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured.'.

SEC. 3. RECORDKEEPING REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSFERS OF GRANDFATHERED FIREARMS.

(a) OFFENSE- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(w)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, ship, or deliver a semiautomatic assault weapon to a person who has not completed a form 4473 in connection with the transfer of the semiautomatic assault weapon.

`(2) It shall be unlawful for a person to receive a semiautomatic assault weapon unless the person has completed a form 4473 in connection with the transfer of the semiautomatic assault weapon.

`(3) If a person receives a semiautomatic assault weapon from anyone other than a licensed dealer, both the person and the transferor shall retain a copy of the form 4473 completed in connection with the transfer.

`(4) Within 90 days after the date of the enactment of this subsection, the Secretary shall prescribe regulations ensuring the availability of form 4473 to owners of semiautomatic assault weapons.

`(5) As used in this subsection, the term `form 4473' means--

`(A) the form which, as of the date of the enactment of this subsection, is designated by the Secretary as form 4473; or

`(B) any other form which--

`(i) is required by the Secretary, in lieu of the form described in subparagraph (A), to be completed in connection with the transfer of a semiautomatic assault weapon; and

`(ii) when completed, contains, at a minimum, the information that, as of the date of the enactment of this subsection, is required to be provided on the form described in subparagraph (A).'.

(b) PENALTY- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(6) A person who knowingly violates section 922(w) shall be fined not more than $1,000, imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both. Section 3571 shall not apply to any offense under this paragraph.'.

SEC. 4. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

(a) PROHIBITION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by sections 2 and 3 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(x)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subsection.

`(3) This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;

`(B) the transfer of a large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer to an entity referred to in subparagraph (A) or to a law enforcement officer authorized by such an entity to purchase large capacity ammunition feeding devices for official use;

`(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving ammunition, of a large capacity ammunition feeding device transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or

`(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.'.

(b) DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE- Section 921(a) of such title, as amended by section 2(b) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(31) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding device'--

`(A) means--

`(i) a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; and

`(ii) any combination of parts from which a device described in clause (i) can be assembled; but

`(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.'.

(c) LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES TREATED AS FIREARMS- Section 921(a)(3) of such title is amended in the first sentence by striking `or (D) any destructive device.' and inserting `(D) any destructive device; or (E) any large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(d) PENALTY- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of such title, as amended by section 2(c) of this Act, is amended by striking `or (v)' and inserting `(v), or (x)'.

(e) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES- Section 923(i) of such title, as amended by section 2(d) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following: `A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe.'.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

From H.R. 1022, The Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007:

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

`(ii) AR-10;

`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

`(iv) AR70;

`(v) Calico Liberty;

`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

`(xi) M1 Carbine;

`(xii) Saiga;

`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

`(xv) SLG 95;

`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

`(xvii) Steyr AUG;

`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

`(xix) Tavor;

`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Calico M-110;

`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;

`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

`(iii) Striker 12; or

`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.

`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.

`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.

`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.

`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.

`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.

Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and

(2) by adding after and below the end the following:

`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.

SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.

Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the 1st sentence and inserting the following:

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;

`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(C) is an antique firearm.'.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

[SeekTruth]

I know where my kids are in the house. Assuming an attack happened at night which they usually seem to do, I'd know which direction to fire in. It's quite obvious.

And being that a 223 bullet can penetrate walls to some extent is a plus because where the door is located and the nearby walls, gives me the ability to deal with the intruder as he takes cover behind that wall.

[NVplumber]

Originally Posted by oz in SC

Where can you,as a US citizen buy a grenade?
Or an automatic rifle?

Also the Mexican police are armed with automatic rifles,how are they outgunned?

The Mexican police have decent weapons but the cartels have better ones and more of them and they pay their people better to use them. The cartels can get ANYTHING they want and they do. A ban on civilian posession of semi auto versions of service rifles in the US as a measure to stem the cartels access to weapons is peaing on our backs and telling us it's raining. Oh yea LMAO, that will do so much aye? . They have the bucks to get weapons of any type from any source they want. Including established governments in Eastern Europe.

[uggabugga]

at least part of the stock market is doing well these days

Fear of Obama drives gun stocks higher - Top Stocks Blog - MSN Money

[SeekTruth]

To "Oz"

Banning pistols or any weapon won't stop crime!
Look at the horrific violence in the UK, France and elsewhere.

Here in the US, the street thugs will always have access to weapons
and good ones. They get them on the blackmarket and they always will
no matter how many gun bans were to be passed.

You're asking American families to become easy prey to thugs. Do you realize your
ideas benefit criminals? Perhaps that's the ideal then, huh?

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

Mexican drug cartels are getting their assault weapons from the USA and outgunning the Mexican police. If this helps to stop the flow and prevent a huge country next door from becoming a failed state, I'm all for it.

Why would Mexican druggies come to the US, go through all the crap of a background check (NICS) and spend $1200 for a semi-auto AR-15 lookalike or overpriced AK lookalike when they can buy fully automatic AKs in any 3rd world hellhole for $100 or so? Same with M-16s, FALs or G3 sold all over the globe. For that matter, how come these guys can pass a background check??? I think the "Mexican Cartels" buying semi-autos from the US makes a good story, but doubt that there is much basis in fact.