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This is a non-issue. Women who seek abortions KNOW they are carrying a human life. They don't need a doctor to tell them that. They have decided, for whatever reason--health, economic, emotional, selfishness, fear-- that they don't want to carry a human life to term.
This law will make the anti-choice people feel better and won't affect the number of abortions carried out at all.
Isn't there a big difference between the STATE executing someone in the name of Justice and a woman ending an unwanted pregnacy by her own choice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
I have spent my entire adult life standing up for and fighting to protect those for whom, at that point in time, society is offering the least protection. I worked for civil rights, equal rights for women, and currently for health care for all. Because I believe devoutly that a society is defined by how it provides protection for those who are most vulnerable I believe in protecting the unborn. Surely the unborn is the most innocent, most vulnerable, least able to protect themselves, of any group. I do not understand how those who call themselves liberals and who will stand up against the death penalty for murderers will not stand up for and protect an innocent unborn.
You're so lucky to be such a superior human being. Why, with your perfection, moral judgments come so easily to you. You never have to even consider the other person's point of view, because you know you are better, smarter, morally superior in every way. I bow to you, an angel fallen from the heavens.
And you're so smug, to boot.
She's just being honest. Her comment was probably the most honest on this whole thread. All she did was state what most people do every single day. Voting, for example, is a way of imposing your values on others.
I always find it fascinating that the conservative base always claims they want less intrusive gov in their lives. Yet seem to have no problem with intrusive gov dictating reproductive rights to other women. I think most of us know that most of these objections are based in some religious belief. The Christian Church has long subjugated women. This seems like more of the same to me.
I once had the opportunity to discuss abortions with a OB/GYN who handled high risk pregancies and did abortions. The conversation started with fetuses with birth defects but moved on to include high risk/unplanned pregnancies in general. He said that as far as he was concerned, each woman (or couple) had to make the decision for herself (themselves). He said he saw staunch anti-abortionist opt for abortions and staunch pro-choicers go ahead and given birth despite the circumstances.
I always find it fascinating that the conservative base always claims they want less intrusive gov in their lives. Yet seem to have no problem with intrusive gov dictating reproductive rights to other women. I think most of us know that most of these objections are based in some religious belief. The Christian Church has long subjugated women. This seems like more of the same to me.
Yes, I have asked and asked the repubs to explain why think (erroneously ) that Obama's health care plan means that the government will come between them and their doctor and they don't want that
BUT
they see nothing wrong with the government coming between a woman and her doctor.....
NOT ONE has had the guts to answer.
But it's just one more example of their ignorance , confusion, and hatred of women.
Your reply surprised me. What about the innocent woman who finds herself pregnant when she does not want to be, whether it be at that point in her life or ever? Should she not have the right to control her own reproductive processes? I'm sorry, but I find the woman's rights to trump those of a potential human life. And I totally disagree with this judge who says women wanting an abortion must be 'informed' about that potential life. Especially with the wording that was used. A fetus is not a 'human life'. It is a potential human life.
Pregnancy is temporary. Dead is forever. I'm sorry that but that difference seems so clear to me that I can't understand why it isn't to you.
She's just being honest. Her comment was probably the most honest on this whole thread. All she did was state what most people do every single day. Voting, for example, is a way of imposing your values on others.
Voting is not a way of imposing your values on others. Voting is participating in a system where the majority of votes will determine what is imposed. Voting is a an implicit recognition that your values are NOT superior to others, but that you will, in fact, accept the values of the majority over your own personal views by virtue of your participation in the process.
The entire argument against abortion rests on the premise that women who seek abortions are somehow deficient. Deficient in their morality, according to all the posters on the abortion threads in this forum who decry these women for sleeping around, for spreading their legs, for having sex. Deficient in their intelligence because they either couldn't figure out how to use birth control properly or are too stupid to figure out that they are bad, bad women for having an abortion.
When the situation is that no one, not you, nor I, not anyone on this forum, is in the position to judge these women. We don't have to live their lives whether they get the abortion or not. We don't have to feel their pain or their distress. Why the pregnancy is unwanted is none of our business. Who are we to judge their reasons?
Being pro-choice isn't about being pro-abortion. It's about being pro-women. It's about respect for women. If you cannot respect that a woman can judge for herself the degree of harm that she faces by being pregnant, then you can't really say that you respect women. Only the woman is in the position to evaluate her situation. She's the only one that knows every aspect of that situation.
If you are anti-abortion, you shouldn't be focusing your attention on stopping women from having abortions. You should be focusing your attention on why women choose to have abortions. And then fixing the problems. Because women know what the problems are. Women know that even with laws protecting them, that mothers are at a disadvantage in the workplace. Women know that pregnancy isn't risk-free, that women die from complications from pregnancy and childbirth. Women know that after the child is born, the expense of raising that child as well as the responsibility will continue for many years. Make daycare more affordable. Make insurance companies and healthcare do a better job in monitoring mothers who've just given birth and pregnant mothers. Change our society so that parenting isn't primarily dealt with by mothers at the expense of their careers and earnings.
Work with law enforcement and social agencies to make sure woman have better options than staying in abusive relationships. If you want fewer abortions, which most of us do want, then listen to the women who think abortion is the best choice, and make it not be the best choice. But don't take away choice from women because you think you are a better person than the woman who is desperate not to have a child for very good reasons according to her. Her reasons need to be dealt with. And she deserves respect.
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death penalty = abortion
Abortions and the Right
