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Agreed. Realize though that most "facts" are really nothing more than the result of biased investigation. So you could be more ignorant by getting too many "facts" derived from biased sources. Again, "ignorance" at some level has to be defined by a particular viewpoint.
If Joe Poster has more facts than me, I am ignorant in comparison.
There is no judgement - facts are not determined by perspective or belief.
If there are a set of 10 facts about a given topic, and I know 3 of them then I'm missing a lot of information. For me to comment on something I know little about would be to display my ignorance.
And on the other side, when I know more about a given topic than Joe Poster - its easy to tell Joe is ignorant.
And then there are inflexible ignorant people who somehow avoid letting new facts adjust their perspective.
The truth is that we are a sadly very divided country, and have been since 2000, perhaps even since 1992. And with division is coming a lot of paranoia.
And they're ignorant because...? The people that attend tea parties and town halls are both conservative and liberal - and very well informed. They access many sources of information and even read (gasp) the Constitution.
They're rightfully concerned about the outrageous debt and government takeovers, union involvements and threats to everyday freedoms coming from the most radical administration we've ever had. They want to have their voices heard in hopes that the government will
listen and at the very least do what they all took an oath to do - preserve the Constitution.
That's neither naive nor ignorant and it's far more constructive than the "couch politics" of
Keith Olbermann's drooling followers.
I would like to note that RED states seem to have more people believing in religious revealed truth (faith) while Blue states seem to have more humanists that believing in facts and not authority.
I do not think the folks in the RED states are either stupid or ignorant but just have a different way of looking at things.
I was talking to my mother yesterday and I came to a realization. I am the only democrat out of all of my friends and everyone in my entire family(I am self employed). Up until the last couple years, I had mostly stayed out of politics, so it had never really been an issue. But with last years elections I have been pretty fired up for fundamental changes in our system, which I think has failed the people of our country.
I come from a Red state, and I live in a suburban area, so the fact that I am encompassed by so many republicans/libertarians is not of any real surprise to me. But while I love my family and friends, they do not keep up with politics. There are a few issues that they feel impassioned about(my sister is very pro-life), but 90% of the issues facing America, they really know nothing about. I was very disheartened during last years election to hear them repeating mis-truths over and over about Obama. Everything from him being a muslim, to being born in other countries, to calling him a communist, and then racist remarks.
No one I socialize with could tell you that we live in a Republic(not a democracy), they wouldn't know the difference between socialism, communism, or fascism. They don't know the difference between single payer or the public option. The reason they are republicans is basically because almost everyone around here is a republican, and the local news is very biased.
They are good hard working people, you might even call them "typical" Americans. But if I could, I wouldn't allow any of them to vote. Because I don't believe they can make an "informed" decision, being that, they aren't informed, nor are they really interested in becoming informed. They are too busy in their own lives to care. But in every presidential election they go out and cast their vote for a Republican candidate(well at least the ones that actually care to vote).
I'm sure this same thing happens in blue states, the other way around? I just feel very biased towards the ignorance of Red states, because I live in one and see so many ignorant people, and they are all republicans. Of course, like I said, I don't know any democrats. So I have yet to meet an ignorant democrat.
I was talking to my mother yesterday and I came to a realization. I am the only democrat out of all of my friends and everyone in my entire family(I am self employed). Up until the last couple years, I had mostly stayed out of politics, so it had never really been an issue. But with last years elections I have been pretty fired up for fundamental changes in our system, which I think has failed the people of our country.
I come from a Red state, and I live in a suburban area, so the fact that I am encompassed by so many republicans/libertarians is not of any real surprise to me. But while I love my family and friends, they do not keep up with politics. There are a few issues that they feel impassioned about(my sister is very pro-life), but 90% of the issues facing America, they really know nothing about. I was very disheartened during last years election to hear them repeating mis-truths over and over about Obama. Everything from him being a muslim, to being born in other countries, to calling him a communist, and then racist remarks.
No one I socialize with could tell you that we live in a Republic(not a democracy), they wouldn't know the difference between socialism, communism, or fascism. They don't know the difference between single payer or the public option. The reason they are republicans is basically because almost everyone around here is a republican, and the local news is very biased.
They are good hard working people, you might even call them "typical" Americans. But if I could, I wouldn't allow any of them to vote. Because I don't believe they can make an "informed" decision, being that, they aren't informed, nor are they really interested in becoming informed. They are too busy in their own lives to care. But in every presidential election they go out and cast their vote for a Republican candidate(well at least the ones that actually care to vote).
I'm sure this same thing happens in blue states, the other way around? I just feel very biased towards the ignorance of Red states, because I live in one and see so many ignorant people, and they are all republicans. Of course, like I said, I don't know any democrats. So I have yet to meet an ignorant democrat.
We don't keep up with current events and politics? Is that because we do not agree with your liberal views? To make a statement, you have yet to meet an ignorant democrat indicates you are all among those who are a bit on the ignorant side. There are both in every party and I would like to know what state you live in where you haven't met a democrat..You obviously do not hang out with people who are political period.
We don't keep up with current events and politics? Is that because we do not agree with your liberal views? To make a statement, you have yet to meet an ignorant democrat indicates you are all among those who are a bit on the ignorant side. There are both in every party and I would like to know what state you live in where you haven't met a democrat..You obviously do not hang out with people who are political period.
Nita
Are you the subject of that post?
Are you one of that poster's "family and friends" who does not "keep up with politics."
The poster you respond to was talking about their personal experience.
How you came to the conclusion that their personal experience is debatable, I'll probably never know.
(unless you are a cojoined twin with the previous poster)
We don't keep up with current events and politics? Is that because we do not agree with your liberal views? To make a statement, you have yet to meet an ignorant democrat indicates you are all among those who are a bit on the ignorant side. There are both in every party and I would like to know what state you live in where you haven't met a democrat..You obviously do not hang out with people who are political period.
Nita
I live in Oklahoma, and no I don't hang around people who are very political. Though my uncle(who lives in Texas) has always been very political(he is a libertarian), but when I was young we used to always make fun of him for going off on his tyrants about whatever. I remember going to his house around 93, right after Bill Clinton was elected and he was going off on how the United states was going to fall into chaos. I remember he bought a shotgun, to protect his home from the rioters and looters that were going to come in after this civil collapse. He stocked up on water and non-perishables, and turned in all his stocks for gold.
Its funny talking to him now because he will say how gold lost so much value during the 90's. Then after the bubble burst in the tech boom, he lost his job and had to sell all his gold stocks for next to nothing. Then right after that, the gold has steadily gone up in price. Hindsight right?
As for politics, and me not knowing any democrats. I am sure I have met democrats before in my life, but it was always on a very casual basis, so I don't know for sure what political affiliations they had based on our limited communications. None of my good friends and family are democrats. But keep in mind that I am living in an upper-middle class mostly white suburb of Oklahoma city, and Oklahoma voted about 66% for Mccain in last years election.
Anyone reading this post will see that compjockey and I had a back and forward that at first was less them civil but we BOTH stepped back and began to present our view points in a way that was not insulting to the other by doing this although we still do not agree we where able to at least have a discussion.
Part of the problem in people thinking that the other side is ignorant is how your ideas are presented. To make blanket statements about the other side only annoys that side. If you are here to REALLY debate then we all need to be sure that we are at least attempting to be fair and honest. I would say that the only ignorant people out there are the ones that have horse blinders on and do not ever even attempt to see the other side. This goes for every protester on both sides.
Are you the subject of that post?
Are you one of that poster's "family and friends" who does not "keep up with politics."
The poster you respond to was talking about their personal experience.
How you came to the conclusion that their personal experience is debatable, I'll probably never know.
(unless you are a cojoined twin with the previous poster)
Keep up with politics? If you knew my past and that of my husbands you would never even ask the question. Let's let it go at that..
Nita
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