Tea Partiers need a refresher course in the US Constitution (Congressmen, enemies)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The law does not state an officer can stop anyone. the law only applies to those who have been stopped or arrested for other crimes. So if someone robs a bank and gets caught they can be asked for their papers.
Ask any law enforcement officer. You can be stopped for no reason. There are thousands of criminal laws, and an officer can find something that you're breaking quite easily.
Quote:
The law states it is illegal for someone to be in the country illegally.
A federal law which has been in effect since 1940.
Like holder you really do not know the law read about it .
ther eis no problem with legla immigrants. the problem comes with illegal aliens.
they are breaking the law of the country to start with
Perhaps we should change some laws then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
O.K. so there is a legal way....correct?
You have thousands of people traveling into the United States in search of low-pay, sometimes hazardous, and nearly always menial labor work. No person in the United States short of the most undereducated would apply for these jobs. As I stated--citizens walk on the proverbial back of (usually illegal) immigrant labor--whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Making it easier for an illegal immigrant to become a citizen--or at least green-card, is a far better option than this political garbage going on in AZ. These illegal immigrants stay in the United States because it's so difficult to get here in the first place--and yet it really doesn't stop them from trying (and trying, and trying) to get here for immigrant work.
Quote:
I do not think that legal way is to jump a fence to start the paperwork...is it?
In order to greencard, you have to have family in the United States, or an employer. The lottery isn't an option for Mexico. Citizenship requires residency in the U.S. for five years. For many, illegal immigration is pretty much the only option people have.
Quote:
If you were in ANY other country illegally...you would be caught and thrown in Jail....
Perhaps we should set a better example--something more humane than criminalizing people who's intent is to find a better way of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
Now, why don't you back up your ridiculous assertions with text from the actual law. If you say the law states this, post where the law states it!! We're waiting.
Green is my commentary
Blue is direct quote. Bold is subsection letter(number)
'Article 8:'
A. No official or agency can prevent "ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW." There goes officer discretion and the inclusion of failed zero-tolerance policies.
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c) -- "Lawful contact," as I noted above, can be anything. Ask any cop--they can stop you without reason and trump up a charge, because thousands exist. Since white people aren't illegally immigrating, the only people who are going to be subject to this kind of harassment would be of Hispanic descent. Better not speak Spanish in public.
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES. -- You don't need a PhD in Legalese to understand that. Probable Cause--no identification showing you to be a citizen is probable cause. Precedent? Not having a license while driving is probable cause for not having a license to drive.
You have thousands of people traveling into the United States in search of low-pay, sometimes hazardous, and nearly always menial labor work. No person in the United States short of the most undereducated would apply for these jobs. As I stated--citizens walk on the proverbial back of (usually illegal) immigrant labor--whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Making it easier for an illegal immigrant to become a citizen--or at least green-card, is a far better option than this political garbage going on in AZ. These illegal immigrants stay in the United States because it's so difficult to get here in the first place--and yet it really doesn't stop them from trying (and trying, and trying) to get here for immigrant work.
In order to greencard, you have to have family in the United States, or an employer. The lottery isn't an option for Mexico. Citizenship requires residency in the U.S. for five years. For many, illegal immigration is pretty much the only option people have.
Perhaps we should set a better example--something more humane than criminalizing people who's intent is to find a better way of life.
Maybe we as Americans should start taking these low paying jobs....your working....that is the entire point....WORKING....your attempting to make a living....
It's hard for a reason....no need to make it any easier...he are the requirments for Germany...
In most cases, you have to fullfill most or all of the following conditions:
a valid Aufenthaltserlaubnis or Aufenthaltsberechtigung residency permit
legally resident in Germany for at least 8 years
a livelihood-guarantee of you and your dependants without recourse to social welfare or unemployment benefits (exceptions are made for people under of 23 years)
adequate knowledge of the German language
on oath on the German constitutionein
you have to give up your former citizenship (although there are exceptions to this)
The biggest difference is, a lot of people are not flocking to to Germany...and oh by the way...if your in Germany and asked for your papers...and you do not produce them...guess what, you get thrown in Jail....
We have tried to set the example for years and years...we have been taken advatnage of and it is OBVIOUS...
Ask any law enforcement officer. You can be stopped for no reason. There are thousands of criminal laws, and an officer can find something that you're breaking quite easily.
It's seventeen pages. I've read it.
Perhaps we should change some laws then.
You have thousands of people traveling into the United States in search of low-pay, sometimes hazardous, and nearly always menial labor work. No person in the United States short of the most undereducated would apply for these jobs. As I stated--citizens walk on the proverbial back of (usually illegal) immigrant labor--whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Making it easier for an illegal immigrant to become a citizen--or at least green-card, is a far better option than this political garbage going on in AZ. These illegal immigrants stay in the United States because it's so difficult to get here in the first place--and yet it really doesn't stop them from trying (and trying, and trying) to get here for immigrant work.
In order to greencard, you have to have family in the United States, or an employer. The lottery isn't an option for Mexico. Citizenship requires residency in the U.S. for five years. For many, illegal immigration is pretty much the only option people have.
Perhaps we should set a better example--something more humane than criminalizing people who's intent is to find a better way of life.
Green is my commentary
Blue is direct quote. Bold is subsection letter(number)
'Article 8:' A. No official or agency can prevent "ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW." There goes officer discretion and the inclusion of failed zero-tolerance policies.
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN, OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c) -- "Lawful contact," as I noted above, can be anything. Ask any cop--they can stop you without reason and trump up a charge, because thousands exist. Since white people aren't illegally immigrating, the only people who are going to be subject to this kind of harassment would be of Hispanic descent. Better not speak Spanish in public.
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES. -- You don't need a PhD in Legalese to understand that. Probable Cause--no identification showing you to be a citizen is probable cause. Precedent? Not having a license while driving is probable cause for not having a license to drive.
Thanks you proved my point you must be stopped for another reason for this law to be enforced. If you rob a bank yes you can be asked to show your a citizen.
The Tea Party Patriots know more about the laws, freedoms and rights for real Americans then any of you liberal elites.
Oh, puleeze! Based upon the discussions that I read on C-D, the right in general and teabaggers in particular are about as knowledgeable of the Constitution as a brick wall.
Sadam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. The terrorists behind 9/11 came to the US legally.
I don't like Obama, but which acts that I listed has Obama endorsed??
Again, we have another Obot that knows next to nothing about the guy or what he actually endorses. Isn't the WH administration the ones trying to make it guilty until proven innocent? Aren't they the ones that want to change the miranda rights? Aren't they the ones who want to detain people indefinitely without cause? Didn't the WH put that American on the CIA hitlist without any sort of due process, not even a miltary tribunal?
Maybe we as Americans should start taking these low paying jobs....your working....that is the entire point....WORKING....your attempting to make a living....
It's hard for a reason....no need to make it any easier...he are the requirments for Germany...
In most cases, you have to fullfill most or all of the following conditions:
a valid Aufenthaltserlaubnis or Aufenthaltsberechtigung residency permit
legally resident in Germany for at least 8 years
a livelihood-guarantee of you and your dependants without recourse to social welfare or unemployment benefits (exceptions are made for people under of 23 years)
adequate knowledge of the German language
on oath on the German constitutionein
you have to give up your former citizenship (although there are exceptions to this)
The biggest difference is, a lot of people are not flocking to to Germany...and oh by the way...if your in Germany and asked for your papers...and you do not produce them...guess what, you get thrown in Jail....
We have tried to set the example for years and years...we have been taken advatnage of and it is OBVIOUS...
You are not the first person to cite Germany in this debate about the Arizona immigration bill. How do you say "let me see your papers" in German.
You are not the first person to cite Germany in this debate about the Arizona immigration bill. How do you say "let me see your papers" in German.
I know how to say it in English... "ID please". Do you angry people get all bent out of shape when you are stopped at a DUI checkpoint and LE asks for your ID and other paperwork? Do you scream at them and tell them it is none of their business? How about when going to a bar or club and they ask to see ID on the way in, do you kick and scream then too? How about going to a concert or some other form of entertainment and they check your ticket, run a metal detector over you, pat you down and rifle through your pockets, do you scream bloody murder then too?
bouncers don't throw you in jail for failure to show id
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuditTheFed
I know how to say it in English... "ID please". Do you angry people get all bent out of shape when you are stopped at a DUI checkpoint and LE asks for your ID and other paperwork?
I've never been pulled over for a DUI. If I was I'd be upset.
Quote:
How about when going to a bar or club and they ask to see ID on the way in, do you kick and scream then too? How about going to a concert or some other form of entertainment and they check your ticket, run a metal detector over you, pat you down and rifle through your pockets, do you scream bloody murder then too?
What is the consequence of not displaying your id to a bar, to a concert bouncer? Not getting in to a bar. If that is the consequence of not providing ID to a cop, than I support it. Put that in the bill, if you refuse to show ID you will not get into a bar or club. I'm all for it.
Maybe we as Americans should start taking these low paying jobs....your working....that is the entire point....WORKING....your attempting to make a living....
American's won't. They have safety nets. They have pensions, relatives, and skilled labor positions elsewhere. Citizens won't bother working hazardous, menial labor positions.
Which is why immigrants are here in the first place working those positions--because they don't have those safety nets.
Quote:
It's hard for a reason....no need to make it any easier...he are the requirments for Germany...
Why would I care about Germany?
Quote:
The biggest difference is, a lot of people are not flocking to to Germany...and oh by the way...if your in Germany and asked for your papers...and you do not produce them...guess what, you get thrown in Jail....
Again--why do I care about Germany? The United States requires immigrant workers--they do the jobs no citizen in the United States will bother with.
Quote:
We have tried to set the example for years and years...we have been taken advatnage of and it is OBVIOUS...
How?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet
Thanks you proved my point you must be stopped for another reason for this law to be enforced. If you rob a bank yes you can be asked to show your a citizen.
You are not that dense.
Half of our states have Stop and Identify statutes, including none other than Arizona.
American's won't. They have safety nets. They have pensions, relatives, and skilled labor positions elsewhere. Citizens won't bother working hazardous, menial labor positions.
Which is why immigrants are here in the first place working those positions--because they don't have those safety nets.
Why would I care about Germany?
Again--why do I care about Germany? The United States requires immigrant workers--they do the jobs no citizen in the United States will bother with.
How?
You are not that dense.
Half of our states have Stop and Identify statutes, including none other than Arizona.
The whole point!!! WE SHOULD.....a young 16 year old kid does not have the safety nets that you talk of....
Immigrants are here because we let them...not becasue they will do the job others won't....
There is a reason you should care about Germany....They refuse to be nice....therefore you do not get in the situation the the United States is in.
Tell me how we require immigrant workers? No, they have taken advantage of our current system....that is how, we have given them chances...but, instead of saying o.k. I'll become a U.S. citizen...oh no...I'll go the U.S. and work cheap, never pay taxes, free medical....becasue I have no insurance...so the Americans will.....why...because we have done it for so many years.....no it's the norm....so now is the time to start enforcing the law....you know the law that our government said was a law....
Let me ask you....If all those immigrants paid taxes on what they made (i.e. being legal) would there be a difference in the united states right now?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
bouncers don't throw you in jail for failure to show id
