Moving to Portland from Cupertino, is it a good decsion? (Beaverton: real estate market, 2013)

[sillicon_brain]

Hi

We are family of 3 (wife,me and 8 year old son), Indian working in a famous IT company in bay area.
I am renting in cupertino and my son goes to one of the best public school here. But looking at the housing market here & cost of living, I don't think I can ever buy a house at this place.

My company has flexible work policy so I am planning t moving to a place where I can afford to buy a home & live a better quality life also. Portland (or Beverton-Hillsboro) area is on my top of the list. I love the laid back culture, greenery, safety & lifestyle of portland. Beverton-Hillsboro area has good schools too & I heard they have lots of activities for kids like Cupertino. My son goes to many activities in Cupertino here like Tennis, Swimming,Soccor,Guitar etc.

Weather is a factor but I don't go out every weekend here in sunny California. So my question is, is moving to Portland area a good decision for raising kids, buying house & living a quality life?
How are schools in Beverton-Hillsoboro as compare to Cupertino, how is the real estate market there for buying home?

[FSF]

Since I am quite familiar with both areas and I went to a high school in Cupertino, I'll throw in my two cents. $300K should get you plenty enough house in the Beaverton-Hillsboro area. The kind that would start at a minimum of $1.3M or so in Cupertino. The schools aren't as good as in Cupertino but are better than most of the Portland metro. While there is an Indian presence in that area, it is no where near as prevalent as in the Cupertino area, nor the SF Bay Area in general.

In Portland itself, I don't see hardly ANY Indians, a few Asians, some Hispanics, very few African Americans, and pretty much mostly white people. As far as Indian restaurants and grocery stores and things like that, you will be severely lacking in choice, comparatively speaking. You will see a LOT of white people so if not being in an ethnically diverse area is going to be an issue, then it might not be the wisest choice. Not that anyone will bother you per se but you may feel out of place, I don't know.

It's a safe area to be sure but so is Cupertino as well as pretty much all of the South Bay Area apart from some small patches of San Jose. I'm not sure what people usually are referring to when they say laid back culture as I don't think that translates in the work place here. If you are referring to Intel, I understand they can be pretty Draconian up here, as well as Nike and various other employers. While this area doesn't feel like the rat race of Silicon Valley, the employers are not anywhere near as generous in my experience and don't seem to value their employees as highly as they do down there.

The house you'll probably be able to get, and a good one. Raising kids depends on how well they'll acclimate themselves into an environment where the kids are predominantly Caucasian when literally the majority of Cupertino schools are Asian at this point, much of that being made up of Indians. The BIG difference is of course weather. 9-10 months if drizzling rain and grey skies with a few interruptions here and there is what's to be expected. So based on what it sounds like you want, if the demographics and the weather don't bother you, and you understand that the work environment isn't necessarily so laid back, then you probably should move.

[sezzam]

There are quite a few Indian or Indian-origin families in the Beaverton-Hillsboro area, but obviously not as many as in any town in the Bay area. There are at least two Indian grocery stores and two/three Indian restaurants in the area, but the best place to find Indians is to hang out at the Aloha or Hillsboro Costco .

It is great that your Bay-area employer lets you work out of Portland, but if you are a California employee might you have to spend on your own to attend occasional meetings in California? Also, if you move to Oregon, it is easier if your employer pays your wages in Oregon so Oregon income taxes are deducted from your wages. If not, your employer will deduct CA taxes and you will need to file tax returns in both states and claim Oregon credit for taxes paid in CA. Oregon and CA have a tax treaty which essentially makes you pay the higher of the two taxes.

[Nell Plotts]

My daughter (raised in Portland, Lincoln grad) and her husband live in Los Altos, SIL has been a HS teacher at Tino for about 10 years.

Just focusing on academics for the moment. The Cupertino schools are impacted by the very high % of Asian parents who put extremely high academic expectations on their children. Test scores are not the product of some teaching magic, the are the result of helicopter parenting. The pressure on teachers to award high grades is enormous which is one of the reasons why my SIL is moving on to higher ed. My SIL related a mother's vicious verbal attack on one of his students who wasn't admitted to an ivy league school or Stanford, just Cal Tech or Berkley (as I recall).

Portland metro does have helicopter parents but they don't congregate in one school district. Our schools offer team sports. Unlike Tino where a football game is really a venue for a band performance, game attendees root for the team.

I think a home in the enrollment area of Westview High School would be the best fit for your family. Demographically the school is 22% Asian, a significant portion of which are likely Intel employees of Indian background. This school also had the most Merit Scholars last year. If your child wants to work really hard the Beaverton School District also has an International School. Posters with children in the Beaverton School District would be better resources than I.

Here is a table to help you identify the elementary & middle schools that feed into each high school in the Beaverton School District: Beaverton School District - Home > Schools > Elementary Schools

Lincoln High School in the Portland School District also has an International Baccalaureate program however you won't find single family dwellings for $300T there.

[Steve Pickering]

All I can say is "It won't be California."

[sillicon_brain]

Thanks for providing great insight about the area. Really appreciate it. Somehow living in Cupertino from last 7 years, I feel my son is living in a society with very high peer pressure to succeed in everything in school. It same rat race ppl from Asia or particularly from India is familiar of. Also he has 90% of his classmates as Asian & 100% of his friends as Indian. Somehow he is missing the global exposure and i am afraid he will have hard time mixing with culturally diverse people in later stage in high school college. So demographically I am more open & also do not want my kid to go through the same systems which we went through in our time. In India, in our days anything less than 95% marks considered as C grade . I am seeing the same here so Nel's Son-in-Law experience is true.

I'll look for Westveiw Area. My son still goes to elementary so hopefully I'll have more options.

[sillicon_brain]

Originally Posted by SMUR

There are quite a few Indian or Indian-origin families in the Beaverton-Hillsboro area, but obviously not as many as in any town in the Bay area. There are at least two Indian grocery stores and two/three Indian restaurants in the area, but the best place to find Indians is to hang out at the Aloha or Hillsboro Costco .

It is great that your Bay-area employer lets you work out of Portland, but if you are a California employee might you have to spend on your own to attend occasional meetings in California? Also, if you move to Oregon, it is easier if your employer pays your wages in Oregon so Oregon income taxes are deducted from your wages. If not, your employer will deduct CA taxes and you will need to file tax returns in both states and claim Oregon credit for taxes paid in CA. Oregon and CA have a tax treaty which essentially makes you pay the higher of the two taxes.

Thanks for the reply Smur. I didn't do any comparison of the taxes yet but on an average which state has higher income tax CA or OR? Which is the best option you suggest, asking employer to pay Oregon wages or CA wages?

[hamellr]

We have some really good Indian dining options in the Beaverton area. I can't say how most of it compares against the "real" thing. But at least two of the places I frequent are usually 75% Indian during lunch time. I subscribe to the school of thought that if people of that ethnicity make up a majority of the clientele, then it must be good.

That method has worked well every where except in Swampy areas of Louisiana.

[sezzam]

Originally Posted by sillicon_brain

...I didn't do any comparison of the taxes yet but on an average which state has higher income tax CA or OR? Which is the best option you suggest, asking employer to pay Oregon wages or CA wages?

Both CA or OR have progressive income taxes, but OR has one of the highest income tax rates in the nation: 5%-11% compared to CA's 1%-10.3%. Due to differences in rate progression, it is hard to tell which state's tax is lower without knowing the specifics. However, if you are a resident in one of these states and have income in the other, you need to file tax returns in both states (about $25-$50 filing cost per state) and the tax treaty essentially requires you to pay the higher of the taxes. For example, if you have paid taxes on wages in CA, you show that income on OR returns and claim a credit for the tax already paid to CA. You pay any difference amount to OR, but you won't get back any excess you have paid. Tax-rate details and a tax calculator are available here: Income Tax Rates By State 2013 - Tax-Rates.org.

[Hmm. Why are links not embedding right this morning?]

It is easier for your employer to pay you wages in OR if they already have a presence in OR. If they don't already have a presence, it is quite a bit of work for them to start paying you there. A small company might be willing to do it if you are a valuable resource, but large companies think about cost to them. If you are employed at a "famous" company, it is perhaps also a large company and already has presence in OR. So, you might be OK.

One thing to be careful about becoming an OR resident and getting OR wages is that your employer might have a different compensation package for OR than they do for CA. For example, health insurance coverage might remain the same, but the premiums will most likely change (for better or worse). They might also have a different pay in OR for your role, and it is understandable if they want to make COL adjustments. (After all, you would ask for a raise if they asked you to go to the Bay area from Portland.)

So, consult your HR and Payroll before you go any further. Talk to anyone else in your company who may have relocated like this before. Also, when you broach this topic, be a person just being curious, not a person who has already decided to move. This way, you don't send the wrong signals that you might be looking to leave the company or some such.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by sillicon_brain

Thanks for providing great insight about the area. Really appreciate it. Somehow living in Cupertino from last 7 years, I feel my son is living in a society with very high peer pressure to succeed in everything in school. It same rat race ppl from Asia or particularly from India is familiar of. Also he has 90% of his classmates as Asian & 100% of his friends as Indian. Somehow he is missing the global exposure and i am afraid he will have hard time mixing with culturally diverse people in later stage in high school college. So demographically I am more open & also do not want my kid to go through the same systems which we went through in our time. In India, in our days anything less than 95% marks considered as C grade . I am seeing the same here so Nel's Son-in-Law experience is true.

I'll look for Westveiw Area. My son still goes to elementary so hopefully I'll have more options.

Looks like you are shooting for melting pot (e.g. the more or less steady assimilation process of the Portland burbs) vs salad bowl (e.g. the de facto "apartheid" process of the Bay Area burbs). Looks like a move may be a good thing.