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In my case, I have no friends or family, no dependents. It wouldn't be 'selfish'. I'm a burden to society, so it would be unselfish, if anything. This isn't a whim. I've felt this way for years and it never goes away,not even on non-bad days.
I agree that some sort of 'waiting period' is necessary in the case of assisted suicide. There are people who commit suicide on a sudden whim and they are the ones that can be helped and should be helped, if anything. They're the ones that if they survive, they're usually glad they did.
Interesting that you said that the only thing that has kept you alive for these many years is your dogs. There are others who feel the same way too. Can dogs be better company than humans??
Oh gawd yes! They are way better company because they're real. LOL. For pet lovers, I'd think that any pet, regardless of the species, is better company than humans. Dogs rule!
Realistic answer: It's completely up to the person. I mean, I'm a total introvert that doesn't really like people to begin with. I like being alone and have a hard time with most people's company (they drain me). So, of course, dogs are better company than humans since, for the most part, they don't drain me (although, I do have one that does and it sucks).
I could possibly support a pill but with some kind of required counseling to go through first or a "waiting period". There are many people who have a bad week or bad month and have thought about it, and then quickly change their minds. There are also people who are ill mentally that maybe could become better with medication or other treatments. It doesn't seem right to assist people who can't make the decision for themselves before it becomes murder. Loved ones should also be notified and participate in what's going on.
Out of curiousity, why should loved ones be notified and participate? Or at least, to what extent?
Most people are selfish and can't think outside of their own grief/pain of death and therefore would be a horrible choice to have them involved.
I know Christians are anti suicide. Bur I'm referring to people who are against suicide for non religious reasons. Suicide prevention advocates for example. They're only interested in preventing suicide but not preventing suffering. They beiheve in life no matter what.
IMHO, most people have issues with suicide. It's either religious, they think life is the ultimate gift, or they just care about you. But IMHO, they're just selfish and only care about how they'll feel after the fact. If people actually cared about others, they'd care about....as you said....preventing suffering; mental, emotional, and/or physical. Sadly that's not true otherwise there'd be a lot more assisted suicide laws in place to allow us the option, not make it criminal.
Why do you not have any empathy for the suicidal person? Why is it all about you and how you feel after they are gone (or survived an attempt)?
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Originally Posted by Taramafor
Being tormented about people you knew and going insane because you weren't their enough is "painless"?
You speak as though your some kind of end all, be all solution. But you're not. You never were. Only YOU are tormenting YOURSELF. If, and that's a very big IF, a suicidal person has an "end all, be all solution" and it's a human, then most likely they won't kill themselves if that person is there for them. But usually, most suicidal people don't have that or at least don't feel that for any one person. That's why I'm saying, this "pain" is your own creation, borne of guilt.
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How about surviving an attempt? Bearing the guilt of causing trauma for others? Even if it's "Quick and clean" that does NOT change the situation.
All depends on the survivor. Some may have guilt, others may not. I've survived, I have no guilt. If anything, I have remorse for not geting the damned job done the first time. But even then, I don't have that either. life just goes on like it does everyday. Not saying my answer is THE answer, but I am saying, there are many others who feel like me.
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This is like saying "Sky is blue". But it still has clouds that make rain which affects the land. Simply replace "Sky, cloud and land" With "X person, Y person, Z person". How they all affect each other. Physically painless? Maybe. But if you have the desire to off yourself in the first place you're sure as hell going through a lot of emotional turmoil. Mental pain. Hardly painless. What's more that pain is as much on others as it is on you. And you're all responsible. Killing yourself doesn't mean you're hands are clean from that responsibility. Nor does it end in death.
Um, yes it does end in death because the dead person won't give a damn about anything, because um, they're dead. The sky is blue. It's blue regardless of the clounds or land. It's blue because of the air in our atmosphere. So associating clouds and land are just a way of making the sky not important anymore as a single entity. Yes, people are affected by a suicide, but how they react and live their life is on them; it's not on the dead person. Why can't you disassociate the sky from the land and clouds? The sky is not dependent on those things to survive.
Both my DH and I are suicidal type of people. If he offed himself, I'd be hurting like any other survivor, but the difference is that I won't feel guilt. I know what I can and cannot do for him. I know that nothing I do could stop him if that's what he wanted. And if he is in that much pain and misery, knowing he would never see a therapist, I'd be glad knowing he's no longer suffering....just like when my dad died after a 7-year battle against cancer.
Out of curiousity, why should loved ones be notified and participate? Or at least, to what extent?
Most people are selfish and can't think outside of their own grief/pain of death and therefore would be a horrible choice to have them involved.
It would be common sense to give loved ones notice it's happening, and they may also help determine the history or have input as to how long the person has suffered. Maybe they didn't know and want to help, or maybe they wouldn't, but families are notified in case of a death anyway. Participate was probably not the right word for me to use.
While intriguing, this idea is ridiculous. The problem would simply continue to reoccur through an endless number of lifetimes because the person would have no memory of any before. It would be like the movie Groundhog Day but without Bill Murray having any memory of each repeating day to learn and grow from. It would just be the day that started the movie happening over and over and over..........
But in Reincarnation there is the experience of deja vu where you get occasional momentary glimpses of past lives. By paying attention to the deja vu you can piece together clues from your past life in order to apply to the present one.
Deja Vu includes running into a total stranger and yet realizing some familiarity with that person. Or it could include traveling to a town where you have never been before and yet feeling strange familiarity with it.
Last time I came to this topic I got ticked off about someone implying "life is a losing game". Now that I'm back I'm going to explain why that pissed me off so much.
It's because I once thought the same. But as I stated before, if you you don't even TRY to cling to life then you don't know the answer if you roll over and give up. It can FEEL like we have nothing to live for in the future. Normally because we might not have something in the present. But the present is the present and NOT the future. You can't predict the future any more then I can.
In that situation you got two choices. Either try to change the situation or wallow in self pity. I have no respect for someone that wallows in self pity. I did too much of that myself. I can be understanding about why someone does that but if I made so many **** ups and came out intact and happier and healthier and others have done the same when we all been in very code black situations (I'm talking the worst of the worst) then this alone proves the statement of "Life is a losing game anyway" is nothing short of a lie. And I won't stand for something being said as a fact for all when it is not true. Hell, it's not even true for you if you just roll and give up without trying. Easier said then done I know but "losing game anyway" is just an excuse to "give up". At least say you're giving up if that's what you're doing. It's more honest if nothing else.
It's not guaranteed you'll succeed if you try, but if you roll over and die then you didn't even make the effort to begin with. It's that simple. It's a choice of a possibility of something or a guarantee of nothing. Accept nothing but the worst as reality and that IS what you will have. Is that what you want when you're so depressed? It can seem like it's impossible to see another point of view, one where you're happier in the future, but is it far from impossible. It's not easy, it' hard as hell, but it's there. Waiting to be fought for. Finding a reason to do so? That's harder.
The catch 22 is that some people feel like they deserve it. To beat themselves up. I was one of them once. And you know what? I STILL feel like I had it coming. Because my OWN actions were a factor. But instead of going "Boo hoo I should kill myself" I instead did my best to focus on how to avoid losing the game. By changing the rules.
If life is unfair, change the rules. If you try to do things the "normal way" then you're probably losing the game. I find it helps to make it about being selfish. For no one acts without self interest. It just so happens you can be a part of my interests if I care. But I'm not obligated to care either. If most teach "Be a good person" instead just try to be yourself.
Catch 22 there is that people complain about how you are. Like you're "wrong to exist". Well, I stick the finger to most people in life. Focus on the few that accept me for who and what I am. Flaws and all. Good and bad alike. Only way to win the game. This is where being alone factors in. Don't confuse being alone right now with people that can accept you in the future. They're there. You just haven't made the effort to meet them because you're busy giving up.
Last time I came to this topic I got ticked off about someone implying "life is a losing game". Now that I'm back I'm going to explain why that pissed me off so much.
It's because I once thought the same. But as I stated before, if you you don't even TRY to cling to life then you don't know the answer if you roll over and give up. It can FEEL like we have nothing to live for in the future. Normally because we might not have something in the present. But the present is the present and NOT the future. You can't predict the future any more then I can.
In that situation you got two choices. Either try to change the situation or wallow in self pity. I have no respect for someone that wallows in self pity. I did too much of that myself. I can be understanding about why someone does that but if I made so many **** ups and came out intact and happier and healthier and others have done the same when we all been in very code black situations (I'm talking the worst of the worst) then this alone proves the statement of "Life is a losing game anyway" is nothing short of a lie. And I won't stand for something being said as a fact for all when it is not true. Hell, it's not even true for you if you just roll and give up without trying. Easier said then done I know but "losing game anyway" is just an excuse to "give up". At least say you're giving up if that's what you're doing. It's more honest if nothing else.
It's not guaranteed you'll succeed if you try, but if you roll over and die then you didn't even make the effort to begin with. It's that simple. It's a choice of a possibility of something or a guarantee of nothing. Accept nothing but the worst as reality and that IS what you will have. Is that what you want when you're so depressed? It can seem like it's impossible to see another point of view, one where you're happier in the future, but is it far from impossible. It's not easy, it' hard as hell, but it's there. Waiting to be fought for. Finding a reason to do so? That's harder.
The catch 22 is that some people feel like they deserve it. To beat themselves up. I was one of them once. And you know what? I STILL feel like I had it coming. Because my OWN actions were a factor. But instead of going "Boo hoo I should kill myself" I instead did my best to focus on how to avoid losing the game. By changing the rules.
If life is unfair, change the rules. If you try to do things the "normal way" then you're probably losing the game. I find it helps to make it about being selfish. For no one acts without self interest. It just so happens you can be a part of my interests if I care. But I'm not obligated to care either. If most teach "Be a good person" instead just try to be yourself.
Catch 22 there is that people complain about how you are. Like you're "wrong to exist". Well, I stick the finger to most people in life. Focus on the few that accept me for who and what I am. Flaws and all. Good and bad alike. Only way to win the game. This is where being alone factors in. Don't confuse being alone right now with people that can accept you in the future. They're there. You just haven't made the effort to meet them because you're busy giving up.
I agree with much of this.
People who have plans for suicide when they get old or if something happens that they don't like are acting like spoiled children - saying "I'm going to take my toys and go home."
We don't know the long game - opting out when things get tough might be tempting, but is it really the "right" thing to do, or is it cowardly in any way?
How about those with terminal-illnesses? Because here in the United States--more and more states have legalized assisted-suicide for the terminally ill.
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