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When deciding to forgive or not, use common sense. We are social creatures who use group power dynamics to keep each other's behavior in check and decide when something is acceptable or not. These cultural mores change with time. Is their action bad enough to warrant holding a grudge forever? Keep in mind that when you hold anger towards someone, that affects you, not them. For your own psychological well being it's best to not hold grudges that aren't absolutely necessary.
I prefer to stay away from and not socialize with people I don't much care for.
I believe his victim can forgive him if he wants to. But I also think forgiveness does not mean to "let bygones be bygones." I would probably never trust that Miller has changed unless I see clear and convincing evidence of his change.
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2. Does Miller's age at the time of the crime make a difference?
Yes, I think the age of a perpetrator at the time of an event can make a difference in what is considered an appropriate punishment.
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3. What can Miller do to be forgiven?
Show each and every day how he has changed into a better person.
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4. Regardless of whether he apologizes or not, should he ever be allowed to play professional sports?
I don't see why this event should be held against him for the rest of his life.
I don't think anyone can defend what Mitchel Miller did to this kid, but I have a few questions that we should discuss:
1. Can Miller ever be forgiven?
2. Does Miller's age at the time of the crime make a difference?
3. What can Miller do to be forgiven?
4. Regardless of whether he apologizes or not, should he ever be allowed to play professional sports?
Feel free to expand on this topic and discuss other issues related to forgiveness.
The person that needs to forgive him is the person he bullied. If he's asking you for forgiveness and not trying to make up with the person he was bullying it's performance because he wants to play hockey for the bruins.
You weren't wronged why the hell is he apologizing to you or to the public?
Like Marky Mark, who didn't have repercussions and asked to be pardoned, this guy is not repentant.
I think the last few years have shown that being publicly repentantin these media disclosures is irrelevant. Its a mob mentality on these things and frequently apologizing just makes it worse. The public is not rational.
#1 he didn't do it to you. Its up to the parent and boy.
#2 pretty stupid to fire someone for something they did in junior high. If everyone got fired for stupid stuff they did in junior high, none of us would be employed.
Its all part of the insane puritanical, judgmental society we have become. The whole thing is flat out nuts. People seem to fail to understand that people, including themselves, make mistakes. And kids make lots of mistakes.
If the boy and parent don't forgive him, fine, but you can't expect forgiveness if you refuse to give it yourself.
He bullied the kid 13 years? You do know right from wrong as a kid. I do not condone it. The fact it’s all given a pass is what is wrong. Seems he needs to do some actual work to change, not be the same entitled bully. Nope, I never bullied anybody nor used a slur, no sympathy. I hope he changes but he isn't entitled to a high status high paying career if he only meets one of the reqs but not others. Surely someone more deserving of being a role model exists. Not having a high status career is not a mob mentality. There are consequences for bad behavior. I do not believe only the kid and his family are affected by this bullying. Condoning it sends a message, whether it’s the NHL, or the school.
I read the statement from his victim. As others are saying, THAT is the perspective that matters most here.
Dude did try to reach out and issue an apology to the guy, and the victim of the bullying asked him to prove it. To show some kind of evidence that he was doing "work in the community" as claimed, that any sort of restitution was manifesting in the real world (my words of course)... He said, "OK but where's the proof?" And he said, no proof was offered.
He gave the guy a chance to EARN forgiveness by demonstrating personal growth. A real, concrete way, to prove that he wasn't just performatively issuing a damage control apology to try and save his career. But it turns out...the apology was paper thin with no substance behind it, as determined by the only person in a position to judge it.
This was not an isolated incident at age 14, it was an ongoing hell perpetrated by a group of students on one kid for years.
And I would ask...who among us did not see any of that happening when we were growing up in school, whether we were directly a part of it or not? I wonder. Yes, young people make mistakes. Hell, grown people do too. And I do believe that there should be some grace allowed for growth, learning, repentance and redemption. But you can't just say it. You've got to DO it. You've got to mean it. And I can say, from the standpoint of someone who was on a committee in an organization of about 3,000-4,000 members, and had input on the handling of behavioral violations reports, including against people in positions of power and authority in the group.... It was a big part of how we viewed it, whether the person was defensive, in denial, in damage control mode or trying to minimize the account of what they'd done... Or were they willing to hear their victims, acknowledge their bad behavior, and make sincere accommodation and change to prove growth and earn forgiveness? That stuff matters. It's the only way that one can judge sincerity.
But we have two levels here. The personal level of those directly involved and the bigger picture level of group censure. Which includes one's career prospects. I believe that any victim of wrongdoing has a choice to forgive or not to forgive. They are not required or obligated to forgive, but they also do not have the entitlement to ruin a person forever over a grievance, independent of the actions of the perpetrator. Everyone should have the independent ability, a path, to their own redemption, regardless of whether their victim can or wants to forgive or not.
But they may have to prove it or earn it, in either regard. That can require taking the initiative, acknowledging your wrongdoing in full, making amends, and demonstrating that you have thoroughly reformed your thinking (in public and in private.) You can't just say you've changed...you need to have changed.
Of course this is more on the interpersonal level and excludes any situational consequences or processes that may be going on with the justice system in scenarios of actual crimes. That is a whole other matter. I'm just referring to the social end of it.
Frankly I think this hockey player was one of the relatively lucky ones. His victim showed a willingness to forgive him at all, it just had to be proven that he was sincere in his apology and claims of "community service" amends behavior. He failed to provide any proof of that, but at least he had the opportunity. There are lots of situations in which victims absolutely will not forgive, ever. And they don't have to. We are all imperfect, some of us more egregiously so than others at times, a real opportunity to make amends is an incredible gift.
When deciding to forgive or not, use common sense. We are social creatures who use group power dynamics to keep each other's behavior in check and decide when something is acceptable or not. These cultural mores change with time. Is their action bad enough to warrant holding a grudge forever? Keep in mind that when you hold anger towards someone, that affects you, not them. For your own psychological well being it's best to not hold grudges that aren't absolutely necessary.
Your mistake is assuming that choosing not to forgive is forever holding a grudge or anger. I feel no grudge or anger against my abuser, he served his time in jail, I just don’t happen to feel a need to care, be around him, hear from him, and just get on with my life.
Choosing not to forgive him as a very young woman was the most liberating and empowering moment of my healing journey. It allowed me the right to be angry and work through it, to hold him to account, to forgive myself for feeling very normal feelings of rage, and finally work through my grieving. I can’t even stress how damaging the pressure by others to forgive was and the realization that their demands for me to forgive were not for my benefit but for THEIRS.
It not enough to cite his age and the number of years that have passed and give him the presumption of being remorseful and having changed. An apology is just words. There needs to be atonement for the cruelty and possible mental/physical injury to his victim -- voluntarily paying for his victim's mental health counseling, job counseling, etc. He had time to understand the cruelty of his actions. The time to do something was before his career was on the line.
These players are role models for young boys and I think it sends a strong message from a team of the Bruins stature.
Maybe he plays in a minor hockey league for a few years.
Last edited by Maddie104; 11-16-2022 at 02:19 PM..
It not enough to cite his age and the number of years that have passed and give him the presumption of being remorseful and having changed. An apology is just words. There needs to be atonement for the cruelty and possible mental/physical injury to his victim -- voluntarily paying for his victim's mental health counseling, job counseling, etc. He had time to understand the cruelty of his actions. The time to do something was before his career was on the line.
These players are role models for young boys and I think it sends a strong message from a team of the Bruins stature.
Maybe he plays in a minor hockey league for a few years.
So the lesson is that if you mess up as a kid, your life is ruined?
I don't think that's much of a motivator.
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