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You guys are assuming that someone is walking up firing shots. Some of us are assuming that the person helping will approach at an angle and distance benefiting a clear shot. Tactical advantage. He's clearly trying to kill the girl. 911 takes minutes to respond. Still a no brainer to me. Yell for him to stop when you have the shot. If he stops..all good. If not...well, you save the girl.
That's exactly what I was trying to convey. I have training and experience in these situations. I know most people don't. I'm not going in guns a blazing. It's about knowing your environment, knowing your back drop and using your training. Of course I wouldn't want to kill anyone and hopefully a trained person with a gun wouldn't have to kill. If he kept hacking her, then yes I would have put myself in a position where only he alone would have gotten hurt. Again, I'm not blaming the bystanders, since they didn't have the means, mentality, or ability to do that in this situation.
That's exactly what I was trying to convey. I have training and experience in these situations. I know most people don't. I'm not going in guns a blazing. It's about knowing your environment, knowing your back drop and using your training. Of course I wouldn't want to kill anyone and hopefully a trained person with a gun wouldn't have to kill. If he kept hacking her, then yes I would have put myself in a position where only he alone would have gotten hurt. Again, I'm not blaming the bystanders, since they didn't have the means, mentality, or ability to do that in this situation.
For people that are not familiar with guns they consider you no different than Elmer Fudd. You can argue with anti gun people all you want but they are basing their beliefs on emotions and not logic or facts. The best thing I have done is taking people shooting that are "scared" of guns and it usually helps them appreciate and understand them better. A friend of mine never shot in her life until I took her and she now has her chl and owns a few guns. She was shaking uncontrollably the first time she shot. Another friend of mine is a hardcore liberal and she is no longer anti gun. Shooting isn't her favorite thing to do but it eased up a lot of her fears. I plan to take her again to TSA because the range we went to was very ghetto (Eagle one).
People are afraid of what they don't know. When you have so many media outlets bashing anything to do with guns it's puts a perception into their head that all guns are bad and nobody knows how to use them. Suppressors are the best example. Ask anyone if a suppressor should be removed from the NFA and they will say no. It's because their only experience with suppressors is from a James Bond movie. It's sad really.
For people that are not familiar with guns they consider you no different than Elmer Fudd. You can argue with anti gun people all you want but they are basing their beliefs on emotions and not logic or facts. The best thing I have done is taking people shooting that are "scared" of guns and it usually helps them appreciate and understand them better. A friend of mine never shot in her life until I took her and she now has her chl and owns a few guns. She was shaking uncontrollably the first time she shot. Another friend of mine is a hardcore liberal and she is no longer anti gun. Shooting isn't her favorite thing to do but it eased up a lot of her fears. I plan to take her again to TSA because the range we went to was very ghetto (Eagle one).
People are afraid of what they don't know. When you have so many media outlets bashing anything to do with guns it's puts a perception into their head that all guns are bad and nobody knows how to use them. Suppressors are the best example. Ask anyone if a suppressor should be removed from the NFA and they will say no. It's because their only experience with suppressors is from a James Bond movie. It's sad really.
Very well put and I completely understand what you're saying. I'm no gun nut and consider myself to be very mature and level headed. Since this incident, my wife even wants me to take her shooting now and teach her about gun safety.
To me owning a weapon and being proficient in its use is akin to owning a fire extinguisher and knowing how to use it properly. I'd never want to have to shoot or injure someone, but I'm a firm believer in being prepared and having the means and knowledge to protect yourself, your family, your friends, your neighbors and your fellow citizens when a situation arises that calls for it.
We are not the bad guys
I feel horrible for this young woman and what she had to endure.
For people that are not familiar with guns they consider you no different than Elmer Fudd. You can argue with anti gun people all you want but they are basing their beliefs on emotions and not logic or facts. The best thing I have done is taking people shooting that are "scared" of guns and it usually helps them appreciate and understand them better. A friend of mine never shot in her life until I took her and she now has her chl and owns a few guns. She was shaking uncontrollably the first time she shot. Another friend of mine is a hardcore liberal and she is no longer anti gun. Shooting isn't her favorite thing to do but it eased up a lot of her fears. I plan to take her again to TSA because the range we went to was very ghetto (Eagle one).
People are afraid of what they don't know. When you have so many media outlets bashing anything to do with guns it's puts a perception into their head that all guns are bad and nobody knows how to use them. Suppressors are the best example. Ask anyone if a suppressor should be removed from the NFA and they will say no. It's because their only experience with suppressors is from a James Bond movie. It's sad really.
You willing to purchase guns & training for everyone you're trying to reach and convert?
You keep trying to make this a "Liberal" issue. It's not. Simply put, not everyone wants to own a gun and there are some good reasons for people choosing to not own one. I know that seems like some kind of unAmerican concept, but it's not. I and many people support the US Constitution and rights afforded within. That's as American as it gets. And there are those of us who are neither Liberal nor Conservative, neither Democrat nor Republican, but Independent and Moderate.
Yes, "taking the guy out". He was hacking a person to death in the middle of a neighborhood. Should I have said it in a nicer way?
We could obviously go back and forth about this forever, but let me ask you a question. If that were your daughter out there, would you rather someone try and "take the guy out" immediately (firearm, sword, axe, bat, etc.), or wait 5+ minutes for law enforcement to show up?
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. I know what my answer would be.
I would like someone to try to stop him, but I would not like a neighbor with a gun trying to shoot it in the direction of my child, no. If that neighbor was a trained LEO or military sniper, maybe, but otherwise?
I think that garden hose idea would be good. Or a Louisville slugger upside that guy's head might be a nice touch.
Pepper spray? Yes...
See my point? It would be dangerous for all but the most experienced shooter to shoot into that particular situation. I'm not anti-gun. I am just not sure it's as easy as it sounds after the fact. Yes, if the attacker at broken away from my child and was not on top of her and therefore easy to hit and not miss? Have at it.
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I would like someone to try to stop him, but I would not like a neighbor with a gun trying to shoot it in the direction of my child, no. If that neighbor was a trained LEO or military sniper, maybe, but otherwise?
I think that garden hose idea would be good. Or a Louisville slugger upside that guy's head might be a nice touch.
Pepper spray? Yes...
See my point? It would be dangerous for all but the most experienced shooter to shoot into that particular situation. I'm not anti-gun. I am just not sure it's as easy as it sounds after the fact. Yes, if the attacker at broken away from my child and was not on top of her and therefore easy to hit and not miss? Have at it.
Fair answer and I understand your trepidation about an inexperienced person with a firearm, but this situation calls for an immediate end. I'm actually really surprised the young woman wasn't killed. I hate to say it, but if he knew what he was doing, she would have been dead.
You'd be concerned about your daughters safety, but at the same time she's taking blows/slices to the upper body/head from an extremely large knife/machete. It's kind of a double edged sword (pardon the pun) in this situation. You have to act immediately with deadly force or the threat of deadly force to get him to stop.
Pepper spray is useful in certain situations, but I've been sprayed numerous times and while it hurts...bad, it doesn't usually immobilize the subject and certainly not right away. If he was sprayed he could have begun to wildly swing the machete out of control and hurt the woman even worse, or hurt you in the process.
There is definitely room to debate this and I'd like to think I can usually see differing viewpoints that enlighten my view. From all that was reported this case, this called for immediate action of some sort. He wasn't holding a hostage, he was actively engaged in severely maiming a human being.
You willing to purchase guns & training for everyone you're trying to reach and convert?
You keep trying to make this a "Liberal" issue. It's not. Simply put, not everyone wants to own a gun and there are some good reasons for people choosing to not own one. I know that seems like some kind of unAmerican concept, but it's not. I and many people support the US Constitution and rights afforded within. That's as American as it gets. And there are those of us who are neither Liberal nor Conservative, neither Democrat nor Republican, but Independent and Moderate.
Convert? Lol give me a break. This isn't scientology. I purchase the range time and membership costs for the people I have taken. They shoot the guns I own, or I might rent a gun and they can shoot that as well. Last time at TSA I rented two machine guns and my friend shot them as well. I also pay for the ammo. For me it's a cost I endure to help people be more comfortable around guns. I enjoy teaching people certain things and guns are one that I enjoy doing. One of the people I taught how to shoot a gun is now a close friend of mine and we shoot together a few times a year. Money well spent.
The majority of liberals don't like guns. The majority of conservatives support gun rights. That's a fact. I'm sorry you are offended but my post was 100% truth. I never said everyone needs to own a gun, and you are putting words in my mouth. I'm the most tolerant person you would ever meet. I could care less about your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs, race, who you vote for or anything. If you don't want to own a gun I could care less. If it doesn't affect me negatively then do as you please. Please save it for someone else.
Fair answer and I understand your trepidation about an inexperienced person with a firearm, but this situation calls for an immediate end. I'm actually really surprised the young woman wasn't killed. I hate to say it, but if he knew what he was doing, she would have been dead.
You'd be concerned about your daughters safety, but at the same time she's taking blows/slices to the upper body/head from an extremely large knife/machete. It's kind of a double edged sword (pardon the pun) in this situation. You have to act immediately with deadly force or the threat of deadly force to get him to stop.
Pepper spray is useful in certain situations, but I've been sprayed numerous times and while it hurts...bad, it doesn't usually immobilize the subject and certainly not right away. If he was sprayed he could have begun to wildly swing the machete out of control and hurt the woman even worse, or hurt you in the process.
There is definitely room to debate this and I'd like to think I can usually see differing viewpoints that enlighten my view. From all that was reported this case, this called for immediate action of some sort. He wasn't holding a hostage, he was actively engaged in severely maiming a human being.
If it makes you feel any better, I used to carry concealed and I was the 3rd best shooter in my class... and top female shooter. There were only 2 females, btw. Class was full of men.
I gave up my permit because I really never carried when out with the kids. But, the classes were interesting.
I'm not exactly inexperienced with handguns or rifles... or shotguns, for that matter. I'm not uncomfortable with guns. I grew up around them.
I would be very concerned with him being over her, based on the descriptions in the news.
I mean, it sounds like you could shoot him in the back, but if he was leaned over her and down against her neck, could you really be sure you would not kill her instead?
This is a tough one to evaluate without having been present.
That was really all I was trying to interject into this conversation.
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