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Women like that expect men to put in ALL the work while they sit and do nothing.
Do you think it's ok that the man should put in ALL the effort and ALL the work when dating?
You really are a ****in nightmare to argue with lol, you are twisting every one of my posts and are putting words in my mouth constantly. BOTH should put in effort, women like that thinks only the man should.
Onre thing you need to learn about me...if I am wrong, then I will apologize, no ifs, ands, or buts about it...
And you got me with the one about being a '****in nightmare to argue with'...man, I've been called lotsa things in my life, but never a '****in nightmare'
Okay, if I've twisted your words and put words in your mouth, I'm sorry...but like Dr Evil used to say 'work with me here people'...are you saying that you've encountered an overabundance of women who do a lot of taking, but no giving? If you are, then you've made a friend here, because I can't stand women OR men who act like that (i.e. 'it's all about me! fooey on you!)
But if you are beefing because you didn't want to put in work, then that's a different story, and that's where honestly you and I would butt heads...I'm old school, and I was raised old school, which is the bedrock for a LOT of my belief/value system...when I see or read something that's counter to my values, I react---albeit sometimes a bit quickly, but I react
I'm not here to draw you into some extended p****ng contest between us...I'm just trying to draw out of you where you're really coming from on this...was it due to personal experience, or is it just a blanket opinion you and others share?
You think it's OK to call women who actually expect you to clock in and put in some work in your pursuit of them 'narcissistic'...and say they have 'unattractive personalities'?
Instead of doing something creative like engaging them in conversation, and finding out what they're looking for? I reiterate...somewhere along the line, you got told what time it was by a woman who didn't return your attentions, or something like that, and now, they're narcisisstic, with unattractive personalities?
You think you should just be able to sit on your assets, and flash your most charming smile, and women are supposed to just come running buck-luscious-nekkid into your waiting arms? Phhhffft...it's called WORK for a reason---and WORK is what folks on BOTH sides have to do sometimes in the dating game...you can't sugarcoat that, whitewash it, or pull out your Harry Potter Autograph Wiffle Wand shout 'Ticonderoga!', and magically make it disappear...
If you want the reward you gotta get up and go to work...that's a basic principle, in dating or anything else in life
I work for myself and my survival. I'm a grown man. I'm not chasing anyone. If anyone is in my life its because I want them there. No one is the center of my life to be chased after or worked for.
I put no one on a pedastal. Have you gone through this forum? ALot of women expect men to pay for everything and do most of the work in the relationship as far as satisfying them in bed, bringing home all the money and keeping them interested. If the man fails they get cheated on or the boot and all she expects to bring is her love, and her company.
It's like men have become wussified after feminism into these women worshippers. I know a guy wh buys his wife everything, no kids, and on top of it she treats him like dirt. He has to get beg in order to have sex with her and geuss who hears it? Was I rude to tell him to sthu?
And women who want modern day and traditional privelages are narcissistic.
Thats like a man expecting a women to work10 hours a day and then wash his drawers and cook him something to eat.
Thats like making her pay for everything and then expect her to make him a ham and cheese (sam'witch). You see where I'm going with this?
You, like the typical American, credit more leverage to 'individual freedom' my friend. Don't be fooled, we are not all individuals with individual choices. 'Our' decisions are made by media, social conditioning, peer pressure, our own fears.
Not even "individual" freedoms per se, but the choices of the couples in the relationship for themselves.
If there is a female doctor who, willing to take up role as breadwinner, wants to marry a male artist making very little, who has the time and personality to deal with their future kids, and that relationship works for them, it's their choice. Sure, there might be gossip behind their backs from friends and family, but that is part of the individual choice that couple has to make. Is their relationship strong enough that they are willing to put up with this? Yes, I know, this varies depending on the society but like many things in life it's often a trade off.
It's true there are social pressures that drive large scale statistical trends. But even these large scale pressures cannot sometimes trump individual circumstances a person goes through. For instance I have family in situations where financially, the arrangement has to be one way or the other -- one partner, due to circumstance has to do most of the child-rearing. It has to be that way for efficiency or for the good of the family.
When I mean the individual here, I include the individual relationship and the individual family as a unit, not just the person. I mean the circumstances of what works. In terms of supporting a marriage, a financial arrangement, a family, what works for the individual can and sometimes has to trump following pre-set rules that society has set as "normal".
Not even "individual" freedoms per se, but the choices of the couples in the relationship for themselves.
If there is a female doctor who, willing to take up role as breadwinner, wants to marry a male artist making very little, who has the time and personality to deal with their future kids, and that relationship works for them, it's their choice. Sure, there might be gossip behind their backs from friends and family, but that is part of the individual choice that couple has to make. Is their relationship strong enough that they are willing to put up with this? Yes, I know, this varies depending on the society but like many things in life it's often a trade off.
It's true there are social pressures that drive large scale statistical trends. But even these large scale pressures cannot sometimes trump individual circumstances a person goes through. For instance I have family in situations where financially, the arrangement has to be one way or the other -- one partner, due to circumstance has to do most of the child-rearing. It has to be that way for efficiency or for the good of the family.
When I mean the individual here, I include the individual relationship and the individual family as a unit, not just the person. I mean the circumstances of what works. In terms of supporting a marriage, a financial arrangement, a family, what works for the individual can and sometimes has to trump following pre-set rules that society has set as "normal".
There are a lot of families who also switch around depending on circumstances, where the understanding is that if one spouse has the power job, the other one will help take over with house chores and child-rearing. But the tables could as easily turn and if the child-rearing house-keeping spouse gets a great job offer, the power career spouse may end up doing more of the looking after for awhile. That was the understanding with my ex and me, that because I was working, she would take care of the pets and kids when we had them.
It ended up not working out because she wanted me to do all the house chores too but we had the added complication of disability. In an able-bodied household it would probably be easier to break up the work/chores/taking care of kids more fairly, and it would be based on whoever could get a job, not based on gender.
Sounds like you not only have a chip on your shoulders, but no manners . . . in our culture it is considered mannerly to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. It is a little bit of a blur in terms of equality, but I personally feel that these traditional mannerly actions are a default that when rebelled against, indicate signs of poor character or perhaps some kind of "oppositional disorder" (not in the literal DSM, medical model sense, but in the sense of maybe having severe unresolved anger issues - maybe "Mommy" issues or something that is causing the person to act out against social norms) . . .
There are a lot of families who also switch around depending on circumstances, where the understanding is that if one spouse has the power job, the other one will help take over with house chores and child-rearing. But the tables could as easily turn and if the child-rearing house-keeping spouse gets a great job offer, the power career spouse may end up doing more of the looking after for awhile. That was the understanding with my ex and me, that because I was working, she would take care of the pets and kids when we had them.
It ended up not working out because she wanted me to do all the house chores too but we had the added complication of disability. In an able-bodied household it would probably be easier to break up the work/chores/taking care of kids more fairly.
Yeah, that was partially what I meant by individual choices and circumstance. It is because of these individual situations why one-size-does-not-fit-all. Just becase there is one really broad generalization about how most marriages/relationships operate, doesn't mean that it is that way "on the ground". Everyone has to find a balance that leads to the flourishing of their own marriage or family, if they choose to have one.
Sounds like you not only have a chip on your shoulders, but no manners . . . in our culture it is considered mannerly to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. It is a little bit of a blur in terms of equality, but I personally feel that these traditional mannerly actions are a default that when rebelled against, indicate signs of poor character or perhaps some kind of "oppositional disorder" (not in the literal DSM, medical model sense, but in the sense of maybe having severe unresolved anger issues - maybe "Mommy" issues or something that is causing the person to act out against social norms) . . .
I think those are all great courtesies and I like to extend them to all people, regardless of gender. It's a nice way to be traditional and modern at the same time, by being polite and opening doors, but for everyone--not just men for women.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
Sounds like you not only have a chip on your shoulders, but no manners . . . in our culture it is considered mannerly to open doors, pull out chairs, etc. It is a little bit of a blur in terms of equality, but I personally feel that these traditional mannerly actions are a default that when rebelled against, indicate signs of poor character or perhaps some kind of "oppositional disorder" (not in the literal DSM, medical model sense, but in the sense of maybe having severe unresolved anger issues - maybe "Mommy" issues or something that is causing the person to act out against social norms) . . .
I think the OP just has a problem with ONLY men doing it for women.
Personally, I think be consistent: such things are no different to expecting a woman to give birth to 6-7 children in her lifetime. You can't just get rid of the bad and keep the good. Women in many societies carry heavy buckets of water many miles. You should do what you are physically capable of doing. IN GENERAL men will be capable of doing more, so if a woman simply can't lift something then yes, he should. But if she can, and women can do alot more than what they are led to believe they can, she should be able to do any work no matter how dirty or physical. None of this, 'don't lift a finger just because you're a woman, even if you're perfectly capable' crap. I consider pulling out your own chair a pretty easy task, lol.
Onre thing you need to learn about me...if I am wrong, then I will apologize, no ifs, ands, or buts about it...
And you got me with the one about being a '****in nightmare to argue with'...man, I've been called lotsa things in my life, but never a '****in nightmare'
Okay, if I've twisted your words and put words in your mouth, I'm sorry...but like Dr Evil used to say 'work with me here people'...are you saying that you've encountered an overabundance of women who do a lot of taking, but no giving? If you are, then you've made a friend here, because I can't stand women OR men who act like that (i.e. 'it's all about me! fooey on you!)
But if you are beefing because you didn't want to put in work, then that's a different story, and that's where honestly you and I would butt heads...I'm old school, and I was raised old school, which is the bedrock for a LOT of my belief/value system...when I see or read something that's counter to my values, I react---albeit sometimes a bit quickly, but I react
I'm not here to draw you into some extended p****ng contest between us...I'm just trying to draw out of you where you're really coming from on this...was it due to personal experience, or is it just a blanket opinion you and others share?
Ok, I'm gonna get as basic as I can possibly get ok?
Women who have the attitude that "If he wants me he is gonna have to work his butt off to get me" equates to me that they believe the man should put in all the effort while they don't do anything. It equates to me that they are princessy and with a superiority complex, I don't care if you bash me for using these words. I'm just calling it as I see it. These women want to be put on a pedestal and I don't find their personalitys attractive.
SOMEHOW, you have gotten the idea that just because I don't want to put in ALL the effort that must mean I don't want to put in ANY effort And that is why I say you are twisting what I'm saying.
Just because you are off the belief that the man should put in ALL the effort and work his butt off to get a woman while the woman sits back and does nothing doesn't mean all men think like that.
You pursue women like that ok? While I'll pursue down to earth women without any narcisstic superiority complex.
And when I say you are a '****in nightmare' to argue with, what I meant by that is that you are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to argue with.
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And Now To You
And that is why I say you are twisting what I'm saying.
