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Did she even ask him about paying 1/4 of the household bill?
Since she's one who said he didn't need to pay, even after she asks him and he still says no, I still don't that is a problem or fault.
Everybody needs to live up their own mistakes. This is one of the things both you and your daughter should learn. Don't blame on him for not paying the bill. Blame on yourself for making the offer.
I would really like you to respond to the part that I've stated several times:
She agreed under the presumption that he could not afford it. He told her he could not afford it. She believed him. Well after he pays his few bills he still has over $800 per month left over. She was not aware of this when she made this offer.
She has not asked him about paying the 1/4 of the household bills because fears an argument from him. Obviously in his mind he can't afford it. If he felt he could then he would.
Your daughter is a bit like you, going along to get along. Step up and have a man to man talk w/ this guy. I see your perception on "not having problems" is based on really bad previous problems. She has a co-dependency problem. She needs counseling and awareness to get off of this roller coaster of revolving men. At 23 to have had this many starts and stops is not "normal" not doing drugs does not make what is happening "normal" Read some books on co-dependency. As a person that went to counseling and groups regarding co-dependency I well know that pattern. Please protect your grandchildren, this is really not a healthy environment for them. Seeing multiple men coming and going at such young ages will make these issues generational. I hope for the best for you.
Her current behaviors are that of many 23 year olds. But unlike many 23 year olds she pays all her own bills and lives on her own. Is she perfect? No.
I'm so sorry to point this out but I must. Most 23 years olds I know are just starting their careers or moving on to grad school, not rasing two children by two different fathers, who are completely out of the picture
The problem is that he fears not having enough money so he does not want to part with it to pay his share of the household bills.
That's a pretty big problem...
It's too bad but its seems like the OP is a bit clueless but trying his best, gotta give him credit for that. I also remember reading where he defined a co-dependent person as one who would chose love over money. If he believes in his own definition than his daughter is a poster child for it. Although I believe he is graevely mistaken by his opinion.
There are plenty of resources out there, support groups, counseling, etc... my advice? Use them
It's too bad but its seems like the OP is a bit clueless but trying his best, gotta give him credit for that. I also remember reading where he defined a co-dependent person as one who would chose love over money. If he believes in his own definition than his daughter is a poster child for it. Although I believe he is graevely mistaken by his opinion.
There are plenty of resources out there, support groups, counseling, etc... my advice? Use them
You misunderstood my point. I clearly do not think that most 23 year olds have in their lives what my daughter has. She made big mistakes to put herself in a bad situation. But she can't change the fact that she has two kids. She can't go back and start over. People learn from their mistakes and move on. I'm saying that a lot of 23 year olds are not as responsible as my daughter. And most unmarried 23 year olds with two kids are not living on their own taking care of their kids. So with the situation she has, she's is doing a pretty good job of handling it.
I never said my daughter was not co-dependent. I think she is co-dependent to a degree. I have a friend who is more co-dependent as he is miserable when he's not with a girl. My daughter does fine when she's alone. Her co-dependency problem is that when she has that companionship piece she is unwilling to let go. And she also avoids bringing up concerns because she hates conflict.
And I did not say point blank that a co-dependent person would choose love over money. I said that a person that values love so much that they would be miserable without having a partner in their life has co-dependency issues. Big difference.
It still befuddles me why people insist on taking things out of context, misquoting, and making assumptions. Why is it so hard to just base your response strictly on what the person said?
I would really like you to respond to the part that I've stated several times:
She agreed under the presumption that he could not afford it. He told her he could not afford it. She believed him. Well after he pays his few bills he still has over $800 per month left over. She was not aware of this when she made this offer.
She has not asked him about paying the 1/4 of the household bills because fears an argument from him. Obviously in his mind he can't afford it. If he felt he could then he would.
Right, whether he can afford it or not, it's not up to you or her to judge. It's solely at his own discretion. Even he has $100,000 a month leftover, it is still up to him to decide whether he can afford his share of the bill or not.
I do not understand how you cannot see this. The point that he can afford it or not is irrelevant. Frankly, I would just ask him if I were you daughter. Please make sure you do not get involved. When I ask, I would have an attitude of "either way is OK with me" because I was the one who asked him NOT to pay at the first place and now I am going to eat my words.
Integrity, integrity and integrity. I thought that's one thing you tried to teach your daughter.
Keep in mind, once he pays 1/4 of the bill, he has no obligation whatsoever to spend a second with her kids. If she asks him to watch the kids, she should offer babysitting fee.
She agreed under the presumption that he could not afford it. He told her he could not afford it. She believed him. Well after he pays his few bills he still has over $800 per month left over. She was not aware of this when she made this offer.
The guy lied. How does this make him a good guy? He is a leech and a user. He will be gone when something better comes along.
She begged him to move in and incentivized him by telling him he would never have to pay for anything, change a diaper or babysit. She is paying him to have sex with her, basically. How can you, as a father, condone that?
Tell her to knock it off, have some self respect and get this loser away from your grandkids. That is the advice you should be giving to your daughter. Not enabling her by finding excuses for this rotten-to-the-core deadbeat she has latched onto.
My daughter is 23 years old. She has a strange trait in that she is very independent when she is alone and does not yearn for male companionship. But when she meets a guy, she's all-in very quickly. She's had two boyfriends as an adult. Both relationships lasted over 6 months. In both cases she moved in with the guy (either in her apartment or one they got together) and has a kid from each guy. I've given her all the advice I can on this aspect of her life, and it doesn't seem to be getting through very well. She is doing pretty well for herself as she's a very good mom, provides for both of her kids, with no support from either father. I do think she has learned somewhat about being more selective with the guys that she goes out with. Both former boyfriends had flaming red flags that my daughter ignored. Well this is all background to my actual question/issue.
My daughter started dating a new guy about 8 months ago. He is completely different than the other guys she's been with. Namely he works and doesn't drink excessively or smoke pot. After about 5 months he abruptly ended the relationship. They weren't living together, but he spent most of his time at her apartment. After about a month he asked her to take him back. He claimed that he got scared that she was pushing for more commitment than he was ready for and that he made a mistake. My daughter took him back, but in an amazing bout of stupidity and against my strong objections, insisted that he move in with her. Unbeknownsted to me she let him move in with the "understanding" that he was not in a financial position to help with any of the household bills. He works 37 hours a week, and makes about $12 per hour. But he has a $400 truck payment, has student loans (for a worthless 2-year degree he got), and has a credit card with a $3000 balance. So my daughter pays the rent and all utilities. Her boyfriend will sometimes pay for dinners and food, but that's it. When she brings up the money thing he says that he told her that he could not afford to pay for anything. He had been staying with a friend and was supposed to be paying rent, but said he could not afford it so his friend was allowing it to accumulate until he paid off his truck and then that would go to pay his back rent (which is at like $4000).
Well my daughter has seen her boyfriend purchase new tires for his truck that cost $1300. He bought a new bumper for this truck that cost $300. And he pays double and triple payments on his credit card to try and pay that off. The obvious thing is that he has never had to really budget his money and so he thinks he can't afford to help with the bills but he really can. My daughter wants him to pay 25% of the household bills (she figures that her and the 2 kids make up 75% of the household and he makes up the other 25%). Number one she doesn't know how to bring it up to him given that she allowed him to move in thinking he was not going to have to pay. Number 2 she is not sure if her idea regarding splitting the bills is fair or not. Number 3 I think it really bothers her that he's ok with the current arrangement. He's 28 and it comes across to her as him being very selfish. Thoughts??
I'd start planning the baby shower now, if I were you.
2 children? By two different men? Who are both not paying child support? Or in the children's lives whatsoever?
Yes. This is very common and not unusual at all.
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