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IMO, this sort of thing signals dysfunction and tends to mean stuff will collapse. FYI, I don't necessarily think collpase is a bad thing. But people are driven to stability, so they will try and salvage their systems.
Yeah, I think society is such a hot mess that it may need to get hit with a nuke or something too, but I suppose that is neither here nor there.
In any case, I can understand people being willing to make sacrifices and deny some of their needs, but only to a certain extent or within reason. In my opinion, asking anyone to just be abstinent for the rest of their lives when, fortunately or unfortunately, sex tends to be a strong drive for many, if not most or all, people, seems to be a high and rather unrealistic demand.
Many people would like to shame men for their partaking of (or desire to partake of) escort services. They may try to say such things as the guy is "too lame" to get a woman for free or that he is simply using women for sex but... if many men are honest with themselves, the modern dating game (at least in "Western" society) is simply not good for a lot of men.
Despite how decent looking or kind-hearted some guys might be, they simply aren't attractive to the women who look for all kind of stupid attributes that certain guys may not have.
So instead of those men going through hell and high water trying to be something they aren't just to attract the myriad of superficial women who dwell in society, why wouldn't they find it more appealing to just deal with escorts and be done with it?
What is your opinion of women who work as escorts? Is that as valid a job as any other job? Would you have a relationship or marry a woman who had worked as an escort?
Well, I think at least for "some" men, the whole prostitution may actually be out of their need of love or, at least, companionship. Unfortunately, many Westernized women don't make that particularly easy.
Needs huh? Now that's ironic.
Speaking of long-term consequences, are you aware of a young man who was known as Elliot Rodgers?
I read his manifesto actually.
I am not sure where you are going with this...but I will still give an opinion.
What was striking to me about him is
1- He was very entitled. He was literally unwilling to work. Everything was beneath him. If he had perhaps been a kinder, more humble person, then maybe he would've found a nice girl, albeit not the blond bikini model he felt entitled to.
2- His parents taught him no higher morals. Their example in life set his prioities - money and status. His inability to connect with other people was stunted because he viewed everything in those terms. He didn't believe in anything, work for anyhing, have any purpose in life beyond his own gratification.
3- He never really tried. He bought cool sunglasses and got angry when women didnt start chatting him up. He never approached anyone, took an interest in them, or basically stopped thinking about himself for 5 seconds. He blamed everyone else for his situation without ever making significant changes to himself.
As a side....I have a younger brother who was born prematurely. He is not bright, quite ugly, not charming, and doesn't make much money. Yet, he rarely is without a girlfriend. Now, these girls are not bright, successful nor very pretty either. Most are slender, but still rather homely. He is actually a pretty emotional guy too, not some suave player. How does he do it? Well, I think he simply TRIES and is quite realistic about who he appeals to. He doesnt seem to expect what he cannot offer. But he seems to be filling more important needs than whatever ego boost people get from someone with status markers.
Anyhow, using escorts reinforces the widely held notion that men primarily view women as sexual objects for their own gratification, which continues to make women wary about being intimate with just anyone. Many people are withholding love and companionship out of fear, I guess.
Well, I think at least for "some" men, the whole prostitution may actually be out of their need of love or, at least, companionship. Unfortunately, many Westernized women don't make that particularly easy.
Needs huh? Now that's ironic.
Speaking of long-term consequences, are you aware of a young man who was known as Elliot Rodgers?
Reading this thread it is obvious that you are seeking validation for using prostitutes because the attractive evil western women you want are not attracted to you and wont pretend they are without being paid. Instead of putting forth any effort in a relationship with an average woman, one that is shy or overweight or plain, you would rather make excuses and play the victim.
There are just some behaviors and actions that are deemed shameful by society at large. You can accept that shame or hold your head high, the decision is yours.
What is your opinion of women who work as escorts? Is that as valid a job as any other job? Would you have a relationship or marry a woman who had worked as an escort?
Actually, I don't think less of them and if I were to date a woman who revealed that she was an escort in the past, then as long as she has a clean bill of health and has left that profession (obviously), then I could look past it.
You expected me to say something different huh? I guess that kinda put a dent in your next argument...
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple
I read his manifesto actually.
I am not sure where you are going with this...but I will still give an opinion.
Anyhow, using escorts reinforces the widely held notion that men primarily view women as sexual objects for their own gratification, which continues to make women wary about being intimate with just anyone. Many people are withholding love and companionship out of fear, I guess.
I read it all, but didn't want to take up too much space quoting it all. Well, the point I was trying to make was about long-term consequences. I think that the long-term consequences for many women wanting guys to change themselves to meet some very narrow idea of what a man is supposed to be might end up causing guys to either be like Elliot or, at least, to empathize with Elliot.
As for your brother who tries, that's all well and good for him, but some guys are just either shy or introverts by nature (probably because they know how people can be). Even then, they probably still talk to women and just because women "pick up on" a supposed lack of confidence, they still don't give them the time of day. Not to mention that person shouldn't have to change who they are on a fundamental level but at least better the things that they can (within reason).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCollege
It's a real shame when no one throw a ticker tape parade in honor of guys who pay for hookers.
Many people would like to shame men for their partaking of (or desire to partake of) escort services.
Many people is not ALL people. I had an ex who saw an escort. It wasn't a big deal to me. *shrug*
Quote:
They may try to say such things as the guy is "too lame" to get a woman for free or that he is simply using women for sex but... if many men are honest with themselves, the modern dating game (at least in "Western" society) is simply not good for a lot of men.
I think your bitterness is getting in the way of recognizing your own cognitive biases. You make a lot of generalizations and assumptions here.
Quote:
Despite how decent looking or kind-hearted some guys might be, they simply aren't attractive to the women who look for all kind of stupid attributes that certain guys may not have.
Like?
Quote:
So instead of those men going through hell and high water trying to be something they aren't just to attract the myriad of superficial women who dwell in society, why wouldn't they find it more appealing to just deal with escorts and be done with it?
Case in point. Do you think you're owed sex or owed sex from the women you're referring to? You seem bitter about how these women perceive you, and their choosing other men. So... insecurities?
Reading this thread it is obvious that you are seeking validation for using prostitutes because the attractive evil western women you want are not attracted to you and wont pretend they are without being paid. Instead of putting forth any effort in a relationship with an average woman, one that is shy or overweight or plain, you would rather make excuses and play the victim.
There are just some behaviors and actions that are deemed shameful by society at large. You can accept that shame or hold your head high, the decision is yours.
To be sure, I have found overweight women to be attractive and I don't mind a shy woman either so long as I found her attractive and I felt she was an overall good person.
That being said, I presume you mean man should be in a relationship with someone he doesn't find attractive? Well, that might do more harm than good. He may end up not making her feel very loved or desired, he may end up cheating (depending on the guy), etc. When one looks at it that way... would that really be a better option?
And I'm sure a lot of women may know "good guys" that for whatever reason, they just aren't attracted to. Maybe those guys are "too nice."
Too nice = guys who generally ignore women who are interested in them and go after the ones that aren't attracted to them.
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