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The older I get, the more I believe lying to get sex is much worse.
By lying I mean pretending to be interested in a woman until you get sex once or for a few times than disappear from the earth. Tons of guys do this all the time. 'Pretend' to be interested in the beginning till they finally do it. Pump and dump. Nothing to be proud of either.
A lot of times a guy knows if the girl is just a casual FWB but strings along a girl for the ride. That's B.S. behavior and much worse than paying for an escort imho.
I agree. I dont like the idea of supporting the sex trade, it is like supporting the drug trade to me, even if it doesnt harm you personally, it is still harmful and criminal.
Anyway, I agree with the sentiment, and have no problem for people hooking up causually as long as it is honest. Plenty of ppl have pretend relationships so the sex is within a respectable guideline. Abusing someone's emotions is cruel IMO. Funny to me it is worse being a "****" than a person who breaks hearts on purpose to pretend to be a "good girl/guy."
Everyone ****s. No matter how you wrap it up everyone ****s.
Actually, I don't think less of them and if I were to date a woman who revealed that she was an escort in the past, then as long as she has a clean bill of health and has left that profession (obviously), then I could look past it.
You expected me to say something different huh? I guess that kinda put a dent in your next argument...
I read it all, but didn't want to take up too much space quoting it all. Well, the point I was trying to make was about long-term consequences. I think that the long-term consequences for many women wanting guys to change themselves to meet some very narrow idea of what a man is supposed to be might end up causing guys to either be like Elliot or, at least, to empathize with Elliot.
As for your brother who tries, that's all well and good for him, but some guys are just either shy or introverts by nature (probably because they know how people can be). Even then, they probably still talk to women and just because women "pick up on" a supposed lack of confidence, they still don't give them the time of day. Not to mention that person shouldn't have to change who they are on a fundamental level but at least better the things that they can (within reason).
Perhaps it is, actually.
What is this narrow idea you speak of? What are these impossible standards or criteria that "women" posses?
Metaphysique says: Many people is not ALL people. I had an ex who saw an escort. It wasn't a big deal to me. *shrug
Okay, good for you. That might put you above a lot of women, at least in my personal opinion.
I think your bitterness is getting in the way of recognizing your own cognitive biases. You make a lot of generalizations and assumptions here.
Life is filled with generalizations. There are exceptions in some cases, but perhaps not enough (or recognized/acknowledged enough) to rid the generalizations.
Like?
Well, some women want guys no less than 6 feet tall, who are a "bad boy" but are only nice to them, who is popular or has social status, who is highly outgoing and super confident (has "swag"), who just knows how to make them laugh, etc. etc. Now, not that those aren't nice qualities, but every guy isn't tall, nor are they bad boys, nor are they outgoing (introverts come in both sexes), etc. Why should an introvert force himself to be an extrovert just because "It's the man's job to approach women!" and all that mess?
Case in point. Do you think you're owed sex or owed sex from the women you're referring to? You seem bitter about how these women perceive you, and their choosing other men. So... insecurities?
Actually, I think all people deserve relationship fulfillment. Whether or not I'm bitter is irrelevant. What is relevant is, if women have a right not to want decent guys based on perhaps shallow reasoning, why wouldn't those guys have the legal (and otherwise) right to just make due and do what they gotta do?
Well, I think at least for "some" men, the whole prostitution may actually be out of their need of love or, at least, companionship. Unfortunately, many Westernized women don't make that particularly easy.
It's not the women who make it hard. It's the entitled men who make it hard on themselves. They believe they are entitled to have attractive women, even though they are not attractive themselves.
What is this narrow idea you speak of? What are these impossible standards or criteria that "women" posses?
Shemar Moore, James Bond, Brad Pitt, take your pick.
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Originally Posted by Just A Guy
It's not the women who make it hard. It's the entitled men who make it hard on themselves. They believe they are entitled to have attractive women, even though they are not attractive themselves.
Women are entitled too. Do you see a lot of women going out of their way to date guys they aren't attracted to? Let us not pretend that only men want to be with someone they are attracted to. Get real.
And not all men are going for the Megan Fox types or whoever is supposed to be considered a heart throb today. I am sure that they want mutual attraction though. Yes, I am sure there are some men who don't have a lot to offer and look for someone who "has it all" (same as some women).
For the sake of the argument though, let's just keep it at men who are decent guys, have enough to offer, and have great qualities other than they just aren't the hottest or most confident guy on the block. Men who women think are so great they can be friends... but no further.
I read it all, but didn't want to take up too much space quoting it all. Well, the point I was trying to make was about long-term consequences. I think that the long-term consequences for many women wanting guys to change themselves to meet some very narrow idea of what a man is supposed to be might end up causing guys to either be like Elliot or, at least, to empathize with Elliot.
Ah, but Elliott DID meet most superficial criteria! He was acknowledged as a nice looking young man by the media and from a rather well-off family with status.
What made him unappealing? His arrogance, his sense of entitlement, his shallowness, his judgemental attitude towards others, his selfishness and self-absorption, etc. He was the one with very narrow ideas of what makes people "worthy".
Women did not make Elliott Rodgers who he was nor did they make him do what he did. He very much needed to change who he was. He was ugly on the inside. He instead chose to point the finger at everyone else.
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As for your brother who tries, that's all well and good for him, but some guys are just either shy or introverts by nature (probably because they know how people can be). Even then, they probably still talk to women and just because women "pick up on" a supposed lack of confidence, they still don't give them the time of day. Not to mention that person shouldn't have to change who they are on a fundamental level but at least better the things that they can (within reason).
Shyness is a form of social anxiety. That is not intrinsic to one's very being. Rather, it is inhibiting. Lack of confidence is likely a self-esteem issue too, not a healthy version of oneself.
It is interesting how you find it reasonable for women to change, but not men....
You cannot have any healthy relationship without some change. Adjustment for others is always necessary, and an attitude which insists others change for you will get you nowhere.
Edit: My brother meets none of the criteria you list, except he is willing to initiate with women and is realistic enough to accept homely women who are his "equal".
As a side....I have a younger brother who was born prematurely. He is not bright, quite ugly, not charming, and doesn't make much money. Yet, he rarely is without a girlfriend. Now, these girls are not bright, successful nor very pretty either. Most are slender, but still rather homely. He is actually a pretty emotional guy too, not some suave player. How does he do it? Well, I think he simply TRIES and is quite realistic about who he appeals to. He doesnt seem to expect what he cannot offer. But he seems to be filling more important needs than whatever ego boost people get from someone with status markers.
And herein lies the basic difference between the winners like him and the entitled losers who complain about Western women.
Protecting human needs such as love is all well and good, so how exactly are the needs of the "short, shy, and sweet men who women just don't deal with" protected?
Why does anyone need "protection" in this?
It's like saying that people deserve to be in a relationship or to have sex- simply because they're human. It doesn't work that way, nor should it.
Do what you want to do. If one believes that they're somehow not "attractive enough" to find a mate, then get an escort, a FWB, do whatever the heck you want to do. But don't come back and complain that some people don't like the fact that you've gone to an escort. That's life. Some people aren't going to agree with your choices. Shouldn't the proper response be more along the lines of "screw 'em if they don't like it"?
Many people would like to shame men for their partaking of (or desire to partake of) escort services. They may try to say such things as the guy is "too lame" to get a woman for free or that he is simply using women for sex but... if many men are honest with themselves, the modern dating game (at least in "Western" society) is simply not good for a lot of men.
Despite how decent looking or kind-hearted some guys might be, they simply aren't attractive to the women who look for all kind of stupid attributes that certain guys may not have.
So instead of those men going through hell and high water trying to be something they aren't just to attract the myriad of superficial women who dwell in society, why wouldn't they find it more appealing to just deal with escorts and be done with it?
You can't generalize about the modern dating game in Western society. In Sweden, female escorts are almost obsolete, and women typically approach the men. In fact, there are more male escorts than female ones. The only people I've noticed saying a guy is "too lame" to get a gf is other men on this forum. You need to raise the awareness of your fellow dudes.
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