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Well then she might be attracted to him.Which to her, he would not be out of her league. Looks are subjective, but that doesn't diminish the reality that people mostly date people who are s imiliar in attractiveness.
Exceptions as with everything exist. For the most part, how many "two's (for lack of a more politically correct way of saying it) do you see with so called "tens?" Probably not that many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipsydavis
I agree no one should sell themselves short. You dont know until you try.
Exactly, on both posts! I agree, for the most part people mostly date who are similar in attractiveness but there are many where one is more attractive. I live in NYC...you'd be surprised how many "2's" are with "10's" but again, that's all subjective.
Edit: I think you edited your post while I was commenting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lipsydavis
I agree no one should sell themselves short. You dont know until you try. That still doesn't deminish this "notion" of leagues.
Wether it's real or not people usually view themselves in a certain light. Meaning, if someone sees themselves as a ten, then most likely they aren't looking to date a "two."
I agree but I think that's probably people who don't really rate themselves or others. If people are actually rating themselves then they must want super model materials..then again, there are supermodels who really aren't attractive, which proves that "beauty" is highly subjective lol
I was one of those "he's out of my league" but one day I just said the heck with it and so glad I did. I assumed he wouldn't be interested but as we got to know each other and asked each other what qualities we were attracted to, it turned out that I AM his type
Exactly, on both posts! I agree, for the most part people mostly date who are similar in attractiveness but there are many where one is more attractive. I live in NYC...you'd be surprised how many "2's" are with "10's" but again, that's all subjective.
I was one of those "he's out of my league" but one day I just said the heck with it and so glad I did. I assumed he wouldn't be interested but as we got to know each other and asked each other what qualities we were attracted to, it turned out that I AM his type
I'm glad it worked out for you. People, nobody is saying to sell yourself short. You never know if someone is attracted to you unless you try.
I didn't say leagues don't exist, I said they're for people who are superficial and don't understand what is important. They never seem to find happiness with another, because they can't be happy with them-self. IMO
I've seen plenty of JL/neckbearded couples. I didn't wonder what she saw in him, I assumed she saw something attractive to her.
The problem there, though, is that leagues are ALL about superiority and ranking.
There's not a problem with noticing and acknowledging the differences people have in terms of looks, wealth, talent, etc. The problem is when we assume they all can be ranked in a consistent hierarchy.
It's an imaginary system of worthiness, a descriptive norm, that reinforces itself (because people GENERALLY tend to sort themselves similarly in terms of attractiveness anyway) but also serves as a defense mechanism.
Average guy gets rejected by a hot girl? "No big deal, it was a gamble anyway, dude." But if a girl in his own "league" rejects him? "WTF is wrong with that stuck-up *****?"
So rather than accept the fact that people like and want different things, IMHO some people think it's easier on the ego to believe in a concept of leagues.
I think some of the yes league people, like me, and some of the no league people like you are mutually stuck on the word, perhaps. I alluded to that earlier. For me, it's precisely that sorting you mention that I think of when I think of a league. It is kinder to say that a woman tends to like and attract kind of regular guys, than it is to say that heart throb types are out of her league. Language is important because it both forms thoughts and emotions and results from those thoughts and emotions and so it's better for her to think in those kinder terms.
I also agree that someone shying away from someone because he or she feels the person is out of their league might be a defense mechanism, and approaching someone with the idea that "he probably won't find me attractive but....." is self defeating. But choosing not to get in line behind the throng of people interested in a man or woman might be wise. I think you've said as much, and I know several of the more thoughtful posters here have often wondered if the men who "never get any interest or any response" are defeating themselves in another way. I know I often suspect that those men have in fact had interest, but from women who are invisible to them because "women" means conventionally attractive women, and everyone else might as well be another species. I also suspect that they don't get responses because they exclusively pursue the most attractive women. Wouldn't it be wise for those men to consider whether someone more like them might not be a better match, and just as satisfying a match as the "hot" woman they can't really attract anyway?
Let me tell you a story. LONG LONG LONG AGO i had this buddy.. good guy and a great friend. He was an dorky tall guy.. a below average looking guy.. he more than made up for it with personality.... he was married to this beautiful blonde.. not just beautiful on the outside but the inside as well. Needless to say, i was impressed, here was the less than average joe married to this way above average gal.. they did NOT look liked they belonged together but they obviously did.
We hung out a lot.. and one day he introduces me to one of his friends from work (very hot blonde) she was nice and we hung out a lot as a group. I remember having a conversation with my buddy and him asking me about this girl. whether i liked her or not.. I said "YES, but she is WAY OUT OF MY LEAGUE." He just looked at me kind of perplexed and said "LISTEN, NOBODY IS OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE" Don't think that way.. your a good guy, a smart guy, a successful guy.. you can have ANY GIRL you want.. You just have to believe that. Now if he didn't have this beautiful wife him self, proving his theory, i would have been skeptical but because he did.. i thought he might be on to something.
Sure enough, i made a small move, if you will, the next time we were together as a group. I just reached around her, pulled her close and she didn't fLINCH.. That was that, she did LIKE ME! WOW.. now nearly 20 years later, folks look at me and say, "THAT's YOUR WIFE?!" yep.. i married WAY up (OUT OF MY LEAGUE) but only because a good friend told me and showed me that NO ONE IS OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE!
That being said, i think its important to look beyond the physical characteristics of someone. I mean that's what you are asking THEM to do with you so you should at least offer up the same courtesy. Don't discount someone because you think, they are not as 'HOT' as you would prefer.. my mom always said, 'beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bone!'
I've often posted here that I don't believe in leagues. Well, it turns out I was wrong. I don't believe in leagues based on looks, which seems to be the way most men define leagues. (Please don't give me extreme cases, and say, "Oh YEAH?!") I'm glad the quoted poster listened to his wise buddy, and found happiness.
But IMO there are leagues based on age (or at least for women, generally speaking, there are: most women aren't interested in guys a generation younger than they are, & if a guy that much younger takes an interest, he has to do a LOT of convincing, typically, for the woman to take him seriously), and leagues based on education level, or if not strictly that, then--intelligence level.
There are exceptions to all the rules, of course; there are women with college degrees, even advanced degrees, who pair up with construction workers, and are happy; there are women who pair up with guys 15-20 years younger or older, and it works out great. Which only goes to show, I guess, that the "league" barrier, however you define it, can be crossed, and successfully so. I still tend to think, though, that the perceived leagues based on looks are more flexible than other types of leagues.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 01-26-2017 at 02:17 PM..
I think some of the yes league people, like me, and some of the no league people like you are mutually stuck on the word, perhaps. I alluded to that earlier. For me, it's precisely that sorting you mention that I think of when I think of a league. It is kinder to say that a woman tends to like and attract kind of regular guys, than it is to say that heart throb types are out of her league. Language is important because it both forms thoughts and emotions and results from those thoughts and emotions and so it's better for her to think in those kinder terms.
I also agree that someone shying away from someone because he or she feels the person is out of their league might be a defense mechanism, and approaching someone with the idea that "he probably won't find me attractive but....." is self defeating. But choosing not to get in line behind the throng of people interested in a man or woman might be wise. I think you've said as much, and I know several of the more thoughtful posters here have often wondered if the men who "never get any interest or any response" are defeating themselves in another way. I know I often suspect that those men have in fact had interest, but from women who are invisible to them because "women" means conventionally attractive women, and everyone else might as well be another species. I also suspect that they don't get responses because they exclusively pursue the most attractive women. Wouldn't it be wise for those men to consider whether someone more like them might not be a better match, and just as satisfying a match as the "hot" woman they can't really attract anyway?
Agreed. I have a hard time elaborating, and my willingness to articulate is right out the window because I am on a dumb phone. I hate these things. It takes forever to write anything, and the dumb phone wants to write its own thing.
Here's a point to think about: how would you even know if someone's out of your league or not? They would have to define "league" the same way you do, and the chances are that they don't.
So in @mco65's case, he felt the hot blonde was out of his league. But maybe she worked in his industry, so she knew they had a lot in common. Plus, she knew from group hang-outs that he was a nice guy. To her, he would be a perfect match. And here he was going around fencing her off from himself, because by his definition of "league", he barely deserved to speak to her at all. He was lucky someone talked some sense into him.
Someone else gave the example of an average guy approaching a plain, average girl, and being turned away. "Who does she think she is, to turn me down!" he thinks. Well, maybe he's a waiter, and she's a physicist or a college professor. Who does HE think he is? Her social circle is made up of her professional colleagues, and other professionals with whom she has a lot in common. He's already attempted conversation with her, and she finds no common ground with him at all. But he thinks it's all about looks, so he's miffed, when in fact, they live in different worlds and have no interests in common.
It's always worth a try, but people shouldn't be upset that a casual passer-by or casual acquaintance (or anyone) politely turns them down.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 01-26-2017 at 02:20 PM..
I agree no one should sell themselves short. You dont know until you try. That still doesn't deminish this "notion" of leagues.
Wether it's real or not people usually view themselves in a certain light. Meaning, if someone sees themselves as a ten, then most likely they aren't looking to date a "two."
Since I consider myself a 3, I only expect to be able to date women in that range as well. About a decade ago, there were a couple of women who acted like they wanted to date me, and we went on a couple of dates. However, since they were both considerably more attractive than I am, I couldn't see why they would be interested in me in the first place. So I kind of blew them off without trying to pursue anything, thinking that they weren't really serious about a possible relationship with me, and were just being friendly. Let's just say that I friendzoned them.
Since I consider myself a 3, I only expect to be able to date women in that range as well. About a decade ago, there were a couple of women who acted like they wanted to date me, and we went on a couple of dates. However, since they were both considerably more attractive than I am, I couldn't see why they would be interested in me in the first place. So I kind of blew them off without trying to pursue anything, thinking that they weren't really serious about a possible relationship with me, and were just being friendly. Let's just say that I friendzoned them.
Here's a simple truth. When you truly love someone they are beautiful to you. Their physical looks cease to matter because you love the whole person, not just the outer shell and if they love you as well they will see you the same way.
Here's a simple truth. When you truly love someone they are beautiful to you. Their physical looks cease to matter because you love the whole person, not just the outer shell and if they love you as well they will see you the same way.
Way too mature for our posters who harp on this. The reasoning goes: personality can't overcome lack of physical attraction; they say they'd never get to the stage of getting to know someone's personality, because the appearance wouldn't attract their interest in the first place.
There is a certain logic to it, however counterproductive it may be...
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