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This is an interesting question...and an interesting topic.
First of all, how do you know they DON'T have boyfriends?
Second of all, it's an 'interesting' conundrum for women. I'm not saying YOU would be this way, but there are guys out there who simply can't take "no thank you" for an answer. The conversations can go like this "Hey pretty lady, can I get your number?" "Oh, thank you, but no thanks. I don't give my number out to people I don't know." "Oh come on! I'm a great guy! What? I'm not good enough for you? You *****, you think you're better than me?"
There are plenty of men who don't respect a woman's right to her own autonomy. But if she says something like "Oh, I'm flattered, but I have a boyfriend." Somehow men seem to respect some other guy's ownership over this woman, and they leave the woman alone.
Plenty of women have been harassed or molested by guys. Certainly not all, but...if I don't know you...I have to make a split second decision. "I have a boyfriend" is often the safest route to take.
It's an interesting question but if you notice, the question is never why can't (some) men gracefully accept no for an answer without getting hostile, angry, intimidating, or alternatively needy, begging and pleading?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict
How on earth does this solve the problem of UNWANTED approaches? If I approach men I am interested in dating, that doesn’t stop men I am not interested in dating from approaching me. It’s the same with men. A man can approach 200 women he’s interested in dating, but he still may get approached by 20 women he does not want to date. It’s not like we walk around with “find my date” apps that alert us when someone in the vicinity has a mutual interest.
In some ways we do. If we're in tune with ourselves and the people around us.
Same here. But women should be able to go to a bar and have a drink after a long hard day just like a guy might. If she's not interested in getting hit on...than she might probably trot out the "I have a BF".
I didn't mind a guy coming over to say hi and chat, ie. being approached. Bars are places to socialize.
If I want to hang with my girls and drink I can do that at home. People go to bars to be around other people so some interaction is to be expected and not be considered sooo annoying.
I'm not so much afraid that a man is going to become angry and hostile if I reject him, but if I did this, the reasons would be more like:
1. There are men in this world who really are good guys, and it's not that I find them unattractive, it's not a 1-10 rating scale thing, it's just they are not MY type. There is something about them that just won't work for me, or isn't to my personal taste. I genuinely think that they are perfectly good enough to find someone and deserve to do so, it just isn't going to be me. That is hard for men, I think, to accept and understand. I don't have the words to explain it in a way that won't hurt your self esteem, but that is not something I want to do. Guys act like a rejection is a punishment for not being good enough, and I'm not here to punish anybody. I'm sorry if you can't accept a no without making someone into your personal nemesis or a representative of a group of people who are out to hurt you...but I didn't wake up this morning and twirl my imaginary moustaches and plot this out, guy. I'm not interested in playing this role for you. I'm sorry. I really wish you luck.
2. Wayyy too many guys, if presented with anything like the truth, will try to negotiate, argue, plead their case, take control of the situation, will persist and persist. You cannot change what is in my head or my heart. I know it sucks not having control over an outcome that you want, but you cannot control other people. I also know that it's confusing because there have been tons of depictions in media where a woman was initially hesitant but the man won her over. This is a misleading narrative, and rare are the women who play that game...and make no mistake...it is game playing. I don't play games. I don't want to negotiate or be "won" or "pursued." If I want a man, or I could want a man, he'll know it and he'll have a shot with me. I do not play hard to get, and I don't give a damn what some people think about that. I do wish that we had, overall, a dating environment more conducive to honesty and not game playing.
And my final point here, if a woman tells you she's got a boyfriend, don't worry about whether it's true or not, because as far as YOU are concerned, the conclusion should be the same. So it doesn't matter. Said conclusion being, "this woman for whatever reason, doesn't want to date me." The reasons don't matter, because they are not negotiable regardless. Don't beat yourself up about it, just accept it and get on with your life.
It's an interesting question but if you notice, the question is never why can't (some) men gracefully accept no for an answer without getting hostile, angry, intimidating, or alternatively needy, begging and pleading?
Oh...I don't know that it's never the question. It just wasn't this time. OP seemed to be sincerely wondering what the deal was, and seemed to take the answers gracefully. I appreciate that. Plus, I think there are lots of guys who would take the explanation gracefully...it's just us women...we aren't going to know who those guys are, right off the bat.
This is an interesting question...and an interesting topic.
First of all, how do you know they DON'T have boyfriends?
I mentioned this upthread, but I will repost my reply again for the people who didn't catch that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenklown
I got shot down yesterday in a situation where I suspect that her 'boyfriend' is completely made up and that is what prompted the thread, but in the past I have asked out women who said they had boyfriends but then later agreed to date someone else that I knew.
The phantom boyfriend story is something that just kind of gets on my nerves because it seems so unnecessary to me, but actually understanding why women feel a need to tell me this lie kind of gives me some insight into what negative impressions I might unintentionally be giving off to women too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnazzyB
If I were you, I wouldn't take it too personally. There's a good chance she's not looking for ANY kind of involvement for whatever reasons. Could be she's in a bar, and doesn't want to get into it with someone who's been drinking...maybe she just isn't comfortable with cold approaches, or she's there with girlfriends...it can be for so many reasons.
That is insightful. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
I'm not so much afraid that a man is going to become angry and hostile if I reject him, but if I did this, the reasons would be more like:
1. There are men in this world who really are good guys, and it's not that I find them unattractive, it's not a 1-10 rating scale thing, it's just they are not MY type. There is something about them that just won't work for me, or isn't to my personal taste. I genuinely think that they are perfectly good enough to find someone and deserve to do so, it just isn't going to be me. That is hard for men, I think, to accept and understand. I don't have the words to explain it in a way that won't hurt your self esteem, but that is not something I want to do. Guys act like a rejection is a punishment for not being good enough, and I'm not here to punish anybody. I'm sorry if you can't accept a no without making someone into your personal nemesis or a representative of a group of people who are out to hurt you...but I didn't wake up this morning and twirl my imaginary moustaches and plot this out, guy. I'm not interested in playing this role for you. I'm sorry. I really wish you luck.
2. Wayyy too many guys, if presented with anything like the truth, will try to negotiate, argue, plead their case, take control of the situation, will persist and persist. You cannot change what is in my head or my heart. I know it sucks not having control over an outcome that you want, but you cannot control other people. I also know that it's confusing because there have been tons of depictions in media where a woman was initially hesitant but the man won her over. This is a misleading narrative, and rare are the women who play that game...and make no mistake...it is game playing. I don't play games. I don't want to negotiate or be "won" or "pursued." If I want a man, or I could want a man, he'll know it and he'll have a shot with me. I do not play hard to get, and I don't give a damn what some people think about that. I do wish that we had, overall, a dating environment more conducive to honesty and not game playing.
And my final point here, if a woman tells you she's got a boyfriend, don't worry about whether it's true or not, because as far as YOU are concerned, the conclusion should be the same. So it doesn't matter. Said conclusion being, "this woman for whatever reason, doesn't want to date me." The reasons don't matter, because they are not negotiable regardless. Don't beat yourself up about it, just accept it and get on with your life.
What you wrote was broadly helpful. Thank you.
With respect to the bolded, I agree with your larger point that if a woman isn't interested, she isn't interested. I realise that just happens, some women just aren't into me, I accept that as an aspect of dating.
My concern isn't about trying to win over women to change their mind, but what I was trying to figure out whether the women who do this, do this pretty much to everyone because of say bad past experiences with other guys or whether they create a phantom boyfriend mostly in situations where they are feeling specifically threatened ie a guy who they think is coming on too strong, which could indicate a different type of dating issue.
I mentioned this upthread, but I will repost my reply again for the people who didn't catch that.
That is insightful. Thank you.
What you wrote was broadly helpful. Thank you.
With respect to the bolded, I agree with your larger point that if a woman isn't interested, she isn't interested. I realise that just happens, some women just aren't into me, I accept that as an aspect of dating.
But it's the reason that some may not be into you that seems to matter to many. Some guys think that there's NO REASON that's "good enough" for a woman NOT to date him.
Quote:
My concern isn't about trying to win over women to change their mind, but what I was trying to figure out whether the women who do this, do this pretty much to everyone because of say bad past experiences with other guys or whether they create a phantom boyfriend mostly in situations where they are feeling specifically threatened ie a guy who they think is coming on too strong, which could indicate a different type of dating issue.
Probably not to everyone. I mean, define a "bad" past...
Sometimes, all it takes is ONE guy to come on too strong...then again, she may have 'heard' that some guys come on too strong, and figure, 'I may as well beat them to the punch'...
OP, you might not be giving off any hostile or dangerous vibe, but the men who become hostile when they feel rejected do not give off any hostile or dangerous vibe up until the moment that they are told no. In fact, they tend to be quite charming until they don't get their way. So a woman has no way to know which person approaching is dangerous and which isn't. Everyone gets the "I have a boyfriend" brush-off, just in case. It might not be you at all, just a general "not interested" response to everyone, no matter how they approach. The woman is trying to not hurt your feelings.
She might indeed have a boyfriend. Boyfriends are not chained in the basement and they can leave. Maybe the boyfriend split before your friend asked the woman later, so maybe she did have a boyfriend when you asked. Or maybe his approach was different and in a safer venue. It doesn't really matter. The woman tried to not offend you, but the answer is still no, so be polite and move on.
I realize that not all women that I am interested in are going to be interested in me. But why do women instead of simply saying that they just aren't interested invent a phantom boyfriend and use the phantom boyfriend as the pretext for not wanting to date me? This just strikes me as a completely unnecessary lie, but is that actually the case? Is it an unneccessay lie or is there something here that I am missing? What problems is this lie trying to solve for women?
Maybe you're coming on a little too strong for them and the phantom boyfriend is a solid exit strategy......
Think about how you approach them.
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