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Sorry, but no one has the right to disturb other people while expecting to get the Miss Manners treatment back in return. When you choose to ring my bell at an odd hour, you force me to stop whatever it is that I am doing to get up and go see what it is that you might want or need. You are showing no respect for me at all. You are in essence putting yourself ahead of me in deciding what it is I am to be doing at that moment in time in my own home. You know I'm sure exactly what you can do with that idea.
It's not just disrespect--there is also a safety issue, esp. for women who live alone. It is amazing to me that anyone would open the door to strangers after dark.
Sorry, but no one has the right to disturb other people while expecting to get the Miss Manners treatment back in return. When you choose to ring my bell at an odd hour, you force me to stop whatever it is that I am doing to get up and go see what it is that you might want or need. You are showing no respect for me at all. You are in essence putting yourself ahead of me in deciding what it is I am to be doing at that moment in time in my own home. You know I'm sure exactly what you can do with that idea.
You missed the whole point of my post. I'm in no way condoning the actions of these individuals, I was specifically respond to this point that you made:
Quote:
Proselytizers are just a low-tech version of telemarketers.
My point was you are generalizing everyone who proselytize based on what these individuals did. Did I say knocking at someone door this time a night is okay? NO. Did I say that you should evangelize people by going to knock on their door? NO. So what are you even talking about? What you said had nothing to do with the point that I made of your generalizing.
pgtitans - Really? Please explain what help you (and those showing up at the doors) think these people need? And how that help would be achieved.....
Why is everyone stuck on people going door-to-door? Evangelizing has nothing to do with going door to door, that's just what THESE individuals chose to do. But in my experience of evangelizing there are people out there that need to hear something that uplifts them. Some people are struggling with bills, lost of loved ones, bad relationships, etc. and it may not be obvious to the average person nor would these individuals talk to just anyone about these things. The point is not to go to every person or even their home and talk to them, but there are times when you know when someone needs someone to talk to. Any type of evangelism that involves coercing someone to join a church, religious group, or giving money, I simply do not condone. True evangelism in the Christian realm involves introducing someone to Jesus, that's the only thing we are called to do. Anything beyond that, that involves trying to force anything on anyone is wrong. So please tell me what do you think is wrong with that?
My point was you are generalizing everyone who proselytize based on what these individuals did.
No, not these individuals, but these and the dozens (or is it hundreds) like them who do nothing but make pests of themselves in the lives of others. All for purposes of self-gratification, as they quietly pat themselves on the back for so nobly doing The Lord's Work by spreading The Good News. Here's a bulletin: Anyone who wants to hear this supposedly Good News already knows where to go to get it.
Why is everyone stuck on people going door-to-door? Evangelizing has nothing to do with going door to door, that's just what THESE individuals chose to do. But in my experience of evangelizing there are people out there that need to hear something that uplifts them. Some people are struggling with bills, lost of loved ones, bad relationships, etc. and it may not be obvious to the average person nor would these individuals talk to just anyone about these things. The point is not to go to every person or even their home and talk to them, but there are times when you know when someone needs someone to talk to. Any type of evangelism that involves coercing someone to join a church, religious group, or giving money, I simply do not condone. True evangelism in the Christian realm involves introducing someone to Jesus, that's the only thing we are called to do. Anything beyond that, that involves trying to force anything on anyone is wrong. So please tell me what do you think is wrong with that?
Glad to hear you say all that--but I think the common understanding/meaning of the word brings images of people who don't know you well asking you intrusive, personal questions about your religious beliefs in hopes of converting you to theirs. To be honest, there seems to be a lot of that, whether overt (like door-to-door inquiries) or more passive-aggressive, like posting scripture in e-mail signatures or long, rambling "evangelical-style" prayers to open official government functions. (Yeah, I've been in the room when these have happened. In addition to violating the separation clause, it's baffling even from a Christian perspective, given Jesus' instruction in Matthew 6:6.)
But back on the original topic of going door-to-door asking strangers to do anything: It used to be common (e.g., the Fuller Brush man), but since the '70s or '80s, it's become behavior non grata for all the reasons cited above--mostly the fact that answering the door whenever a stranger knocks opens oneself up to violent crime.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 07-01-2012 at 04:02 PM..
Why is everyone stuck on people going door-to-door? Evangelizing has nothing to do with going door to door, that's just what THESE individuals chose to do. But in my experience of evangelizing there are people out there that need to hear something that uplifts them. Some people are struggling with bills, lost of loved ones, bad relationships, etc. and it may not be obvious to the average person nor would these individuals talk to just anyone about these things. The point is not to go to every person or even their home and talk to them, but there are times when you know when someone needs someone to talk to. Any type of evangelism that involves coercing someone to join a church, religious group, or giving money, I simply do not condone. True evangelism in the Christian realm involves introducing someone to Jesus, that's the only thing we are called to do. Anything beyond that, that involves trying to force anything on anyone is wrong. So please tell me what do you think is wrong with that?
I was not referring to the door-to-door type, specifically; I was referring to all of those who proselytize. Just by you attempting to "introduce me to Jesus" (even if not asking for money or asking me to join church) is rude and insulting. It is essentially saying that you have no respect for my current feelings or beliefs, and I will only be "right" if I accept Jesus (or whatever deity you want to "introduce" me to). I assure you, I've been introduced, and I choose not to believe.
Yes, there are times where I want to hear something that uplifts me; but I assure you "god talk" does not do it. Tell me a funny joke or show me pictures of cute puppies, and that normally does the trick. So, please remember that everyone is different and their current beliefs are valid and should be respected. And since you will never know when you are going to run into me (or others with my beliefs), you should save your "introductions to Jesus" for those that step foot in your churches or choose to attend your religious/ spiritual functions.
I was not referring to the door-to-door type, specifically; I was referring to all of those who proselytize. Just by you attempting to "introduce me to Jesus" (even if not asking for money or asking me to join church) is rude and insulting. It is essentially saying that you have no respect for my current feelings or beliefs, and I will only be "right" if I accept Jesus (or whatever deity you want to "introduce" me to). I assure you, I've been introduced, and I choose not to believe.
Yes, there are times where I want to hear something that uplifts me; but I assure you "god talk" does not do it. Tell me a funny joke or show me pictures of cute puppies, and that normally does the trick. So, please remember that everyone is different and their current beliefs are valid and should be respected. And since you will never know when you are going to run into me (or others with my beliefs), you should save your "introductions to Jesus" for those that step foot in your churches or choose to attend your religious/ spiritual functions.
But don't you tell people about your beliefs all the time? You just told us what you do and do not believe. What's the difference? Because you don't want to hear it? Okay well walk away. If that's your feelings then that's something that people have to respect, but the next time you tell us what you think is right or wrong don't be surprised if someone does the same to you. If you find the "introduce me to Jesus" rude and insulting, then I think you have bigger issues. No one knows what you believe. It's no different than someone coming to you and telling you why they like Obama or Romney. Depending on who you like or don't like, I'm sure you wouldn't care for the other (or either if you don't like either one of them). Just tell them you don't want to hear it and move on. How hard is that?
Glad to hear you say all that--but I think the common understanding/meaning of the word brings images of people who don't know you well asking you intrusive, personal questions about your religious beliefs in hopes of converting you to theirs. To be honest, there seems to be a lot of that, whether overt (like door-to-door inquiries) or more passive-aggressive, like posting scripture in e-mail signatures or long, rambling "evangelical-style" prayers to open official government functions. (Yeah, I've been in the room when these have happened. In addition to violating the separation clause, it's baffling even from a Christian perspective, given Jesus' instruction in Matthew 6:6.)
But back on the original topic of going door-to-door asking strangers to do anything: It used to be common (e.g., the Fuller Brush man), but since the '70s or '80s, it's become behavior non grata for all the reasons cited above--mostly the fact that answering the door whenever a stranger knocks opens oneself up to violent crime.
Again, you are generalizing too. Sometimes it's not about being intrusive. It doesn't sound like your issue or some of the other people issue has anything to do with what is done, it sounds like you have an issue with WHO they are talking about. Do you honestly believe that everyone that does this, is going to ask you personal questions? Everyone is different.
Sending an e-mail offends you? Like you can't block the person or JUST DELETE THE EMAIL!!!!!!!
And please, please stop quoting the scripture because it doesn't support your argument.
No, not these individuals, but these and the dozens (or is it hundreds) like them who do nothing but make pests of themselves in the lives of others. All for purposes of self-gratification, as they quietly pat themselves on the back for so nobly doing The Lord's Work by spreading The Good News. Here's a bulletin: Anyone who wants to hear this supposedly Good News already knows where to go to get it.
So you are admitting that you are basing your "theory" on a select group and your "theory" has no factual basis just circumstantial.
Again, you are generalizing too. Sometimes it's not about being intrusive. It doesn't sound like your issue or some of the other people issue has anything to do with what is done, it sounds like you have an issue with WHO they are talking about. Do you honestly believe that everyone that does this, is going to ask you personal questions? Everyone is different.
Sending an e-mail offends you? Like you can't block the person or JUST DELETE THE EMAIL!!!!!!!
And please, please stop quoting the scripture because it doesn't support your argument.
How did I generalize? I said there's a lot of evangelizing in this manner.
There are in fact people who do as I described, and yes, I think any such presumptuous inquiry into such a personal matter is offensive. Asking about someone's sex life or income would be equally offensive, but that has never happened to me.
You seem not to appreciate the fact that religion, to many if not most people, is a very personal, sensitive topic. It's not equivalent to asking someone what they think of some type of car or whatnot. It's even more personal than political opinions--and those are normally discussed only with friends, at least in the non-Internet world. You may sincerely believe that adoption of your beliefs will bring someone else benefit--but others may wish to convert to you their faith as well. We can't function as a society with everyone constantly trying to convert everyone else to their views. (Do you really want Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and even atheists trying to convert you to their beliefs?)
RE. door-to-door people, I find all of them equally annoying--which is one reason we don't answer the door unless we're expecting company.
Also, that quote from Scripture did support the particular point I was making regarding ostentatious, publicly led prayer. (I was not applying it to the larger issue.)
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 07-01-2012 at 05:53 PM..
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