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Allan, mate, you have to ask yourself: which would you say looks more intelligent, someone who draws conclusions from a stack of sound, predictive and confirmed evidence or someone who rejects all that as 'just a theory' because it disagrees with something he was taught to believe from a very old book, much of which looks mythological?
Remember that Evolution and the Big bang do NOT disprove God or even goddunnit. It is possible to say that there was a god behind evolution and behind the big bang because, bet your boots, chum, those things happened if evidence counts for anything at all.
What seems to be the case is that Evolution and Big bang - denial derives purely from Bible - literalist fundamentalists who insist that the book of Genesis is history and fact.
It isn't and cannot be. Not if evidence counts for anything.
But, somehow, the Bible - literalist view has become, in far too many countries, the Christian and even the religious view, because now the Muslims are jumping on the Creationist band - wagon.
To deny stacks of sound evidence is unintelligent and the sad fact is, old sausage, that faith can make intelligent people look stupid because it teaches them to deny sound facts in favour of Faith.
If you are intelligent - and I don't doubt you are - you have to realise that the believers are on a hiding to nothing if they go into denial about scientific evidence. They will have to back - pedal in the end and letting the Bible - literalist, evolution - denying religious Fundamentalists lead them around by the nose is doing them no favours at all.
It is just making them look stupid even if they are not.
A final remark about the fallacy of numbers. Please remember this because I'm tired of pointing it out to people who are smart enough to have worked it out for themselves.
At one time most people thought the earth was flat. at one time most people thought the planets went around the earth. At one time most people believed in the Roman gods and hardly anyone believed in Christianity. At one time most people did not believe that heavier - than -air flight was possible. Have I made the point of the fallacy of numbers?
Nice rational post.....I do not understand why some people will use technology/science and then deny it both, at the same time because it contradicts a few cherished and incorrect beliefs..
The big bang is not exclusive to science. I and many other Christians I know believe that when God said "Let there be light". There was a massive explosion of light into the nothingness around.
However, I separate from science with the billions of years and rather follow God's explanation of how he created everything as documented in Genesis.
The BIG BANG is a scientific fact as much as the theory of electromagnetism is, and the latter theory is the one that gives YOU the opportunity to be debating in this thread without links or corroboration I might add.
You believe God created /started the BIG BANG...fine...Science cannot and currently does NOT necessarily deny that. BUT YOU CANNOT deny the BIG BANG and then use your computer....that is an oxymoron.. Oxymoron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I really terrifies me when Science teachers deny science facts....makes me question their credentials/education and what University they attended. Living in Florida I have noticed an abysmal educational system here with a 41% high school drop out rate...truly appalling and very disturbing......and Americans are brainwashed into believing we have a good High School educational system..
It would do educators well to visit Japan and experience a wake up call. If above is true and theres no reason to disbelieve we may seriously consider
dis-connecting religion from education all together.
I think attracting social popularity to the academics is missing. The trend is not achievement in scholastics but dollars. The film industry and media focus is estranged to fulfillment in this area. People need to be accepted and money or celebrity style status is what their told ....."will do it"
Now, were hearing things like man never landed on the moon. Where does it end...?
Yes, these are signs of collapse from within. Did we burn off all of our energy ? The acceleration may be the largest force known to a society.
I like to suppose remedy in devastation.
Its brain washing time, reverse brainwashing......you will be special ,
socially accepted and glorified if a thirst for academic achievement is engaged .
The party's over 90210, your not cool if you don't get with it. Time to re-write and air a few scripts. All American this All American that, what about the real all American effort Mr Newsguy ???
There was a recent article on PhysOrg proposing an alternative to the Big Bang. I accept, and to a degree even like, the Big Bang theory so I wasn't impressed. Still it sounded like a legitimate scientist.
Now we just need an alternative to the continental drift theory, and evolution may be less overshadowing of cosmic events through the greater time of Nature. Darwin never felt that the stars and galactic development had a great explanation to follow up on the evolutionary ascent from animal life to Man?
Don't do your thumbs up yet until you realize the USUAL oxymoron atheists commit every day. What about denying God exists and uttering Oh my God loads of times a day huh?
What atheist says Oh my God? ...I don't ever say that, and I know of no atheist that does.
Quote:
And please! There is a big difference between science of evolution and science of computers or what we call technological gadgets
.
Not so much...To you it's a gadget, but computers are a powerful tool used to not only discover our origins and the origins of the universe, but they have recently been used to actually create man made life...
You do realize there are a lot of BRANCHES of science? Plus, believe in science of technology, the evidence speaks for itself. I practically USE it everyday. I cant say the same for evolution. And that's with a LOT of manipulation from the lab. To achieve their expected outcome.PLEAASE!
On the contrary evofreaks, if you have ever been vaccinated you do use evolution every day.
LOL.......Consider this FACT....bacteria used to be killed off decades ago with penicillin. Now it is of NO use. The reason is that the bacteria, through natural selection, have EVOLVED to become resistant to that antibiotic...VOILA...evolution...indisputable....c ase closed.
Or how about Darwin's finches....all started as one species on the Galapagos islands....now there are 15 species, because they EVOLVED different beak structures to take advantage of various food sources which were not available on the mainland.
And lastly....what about the millions of fossils discovered throughout different Geological Strata...I suppose some Aethesist ran around the Earth for millions of years depositing falsified skeletal remains...PULEASE!!!! Science never claims to have every single detail of evolution figured out; however there is NO disputing that the theory of Evolution is essentially correct.
No posters said God does not exist...YOU DID.....once again an emotional and irrational post with no links or corroboration to back up your claims. Just more rhetoric and no open dialogue or facts . There was a British physicist who was a priest....George Lemaitre for your information.
Science and religion are not mutually exclusive but when people allow emotions and beliefs to outweigh logic....well your snarky post shows why communication breaks down. Thanx for proving my point.
PS...don't automatically assume I'm an Aethesist...I just don't believe in obviously incorrect Biblical information...it does NOT necessarily mean I do not believe in God. GEESH!!!!!.
It would do educators well to visit Japan and experience a wake up call. If above is true and theres no reason to disbelieve we may seriously consider
dis-connecting religion from education all together.
I think attracting social popularity to the academics is missing. The trend is not achievement in scholastics but dollars. The film industry and media focus is estranged to fulfillment in this area. People need to be accepted and money or celebrity style status is what their told ....."will do it"
Now, were hearing things like man never landed on the moon. Where does it end...?
Yes, these are signs of collapse from within. Did we burn off all of our energy ? The acceleration may be the largest force known to a society.
I like to suppose remedy in devastation.
Its brain washing time, reverse brainwashing......you will be special ,
socially accepted and glorified if a thirst for academic achievement is engaged .
The party's over 90210, your not cool if you don't get with it. Time to re-write and air a few scripts. All American this All American that, what about the real all American effort Mr Newsguy ???
Are you kidding me...your post makes NO sense at all and is full of contradictions and convoluted logic..
There was a recent article on PhysOrg proposing an alternative to the Big Bang. I accept, and to a degree even like, the Big Bang theory so I wasn't impressed. Still it sounded like a legitimate scientist.
There was a scientist...HOYLE and two others who also believed in the STEADY STATE theory of the Universe(precursor to the Big Bang)...he never conceded he was incorrect. The vast majority of scientists seek the truth and change their theories accordingly to observable and verifiable facts and phenomena. The BIG BANG is no different, there are a few who have their own pet theories....Scientific Consensus agrees the BIG BANG is essentially correct along with INFLATION. This is called the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. And Science welcomes all viewpoints as long as there are observable and verifiable..
However some posters are extremely emotional and are lashing out in anger because they cannot backup their assertions.
Well it can't not be true either. Do you have proof God doesn't exist? Nope. So you can't say we are under a delusional if you can't even prove he does not exist.
The logical position is that the person making the claim has the burden of proof. It is up to the theist to prove a god, not for the unbeliever to disprove it.
However, you may consider the Bible to be 'proof' enough. In fact, I believe that a consideration of the Bible will destroy any real likelihood of Genesis, Exodus, Daniel, the Gospels, Acts and Paul being believable. That's 'Biblegod' out of the window.
As for a possible god as the force behind the Big bang and evoluton, both of which have the supportive evidence that the Bible hasn't, which possible god might that be? There are hundreds on offer, all equally unlikely. And of course, since we know nothing about it, it would probably be none of them but one we hadn't even thought of.
Now, look, mate. I know that your faith means a lot to you and it's clear that you tend to get steamed up about atheist claims and also that you haven't come up against the sort of refutations that we have...independent historical verification of Jesus, Gospels subtantially reliable. I have to warn you that you are in for some shocks like finding out that the bods who wrote genesis thought the stars were stuck to the inside of a rotating dome.
You are obviously doing some needed work in handing out drinking water to the Haitians (along with the Bibles) and so I am chary about doing anything that might damage your faith.
You can pop off and keep your faith intact and maybe you should should consider doing that. If you stay and argue, you can expect to have your beliefs and Faith tested at every turn as I can tell you, Allan, that I have seen all the arguments from the best and you are on a hiding to nothing. The fact is that, where religious apologetics tries to argue against scientific evidence and sound logic, it is going to lose, pretty much every time.
So, fair warning and its up to you. It's possible to lose every argument and still remain a believer. But that takes a degree of blinkered refusal to look at the facts that not everyone can manage.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-07-2010 at 02:17 AM..
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