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You know...it's a delight to find god in a personal way. It's a highly individualised relationship, and no one has a right to interfere. Athiests are more than welcomed to nurture, and treasure their non beliefs. It's a BIG Omniverse.
Well its unavoidable; in a search to prove God to yourself, the Bible must be considered, you can't leave it out. Its just too much of an avialible tool in the search. Thats like leaving books out of a search for knowledge. Our human history is all we have to go on, and God is all in biblical Archaeology, and human history.
Earth is perhaps some 4.5 billion years old, IF God exist, surely in all that time the earth can offer clues to him; and it does, NO doubt about it! The bible spoke of Herod the great, his tomb was found by archaeology. The bible spoke of the apostle Peter, his house was found. It spoke of Solomons pool, and his copper mines, they were found. Thats reliable in my view. It spoke of King Cyrus, his tomb was found. The bible reveals King Darius, evidence of him was found. It spoke of King Nebuchadnezzar, definte evidence of him was found. Even his " Hanging gardens." It mentions King Ahab, his palace was unearthed. It mentions Samaria, it was found. The reliable list goes on and on, the bible is definitely historical and relevant, and so is the God it refers too.
Its not easy to look back, in order to " See God", but he is there. Its not easy to look ahead and see him, but hes there.
Funny, I just wrote a similar reply. I fully agree that the Bible is really all that we have as a clue to Bible god (sortagod or Deistgod or First cause is actually a different discussion altogether) and on the face of it, (Genesis aside or so I hope) it looks pretty sound, mentioning known historical persons, places and events many of which are confirmed by history. Well, what more could you want?
What more you could want is any reason to buy into the God - claims woven around these persons and events. On the face of it, they seem sound enough but examination of the book raises questions and doubts. Serious doubts. Doubts so strong that one has to ask whether the whole of the OT is just the Jewish nation trying to rationalize the fact that it got kicked in the political teeth, repeatedly and sometimes fatally, although God was supposedly looking after it.
The NT is just the same. On the face of it, On the sport reporting. In fact, examination shows it to be pretty unsound is some salient areas (Nativity and Resurrection) and once that is accepted, Judas, the parables, the calling of the disciples, the Decapolis material and sermon(s) on the mount and in fact all the Galilee material between the healing of the Centurion's Servant and the feeding of the 5,000 has to go down the tube along with the wrangles with the Pharisees in the synoptics and in John, plus all the Johannine sermons, while the shekel -eating fish, trial and (ouch) the Transfiguration follow them all down the plughole.
There is not a lot left to be given very much credibility. As I said on my other post, I doubt you could apply that sort of critical analysis to the book in which you have such Faith, even if you could try, but I'm just saying that appeal to the soundness of the Bible is not going to cut much ice with us.
You know...it's a delight to find god in a personal way. It's a highly individualised relationship, and no one has a right to interfere. Athiests are more than welcomed to nurture, and treasure their non beliefs. It's a BIG Omniverse.
You know, I agree. I hope to one day find God in a personal way, would like nothing better than that. I am very curious about God; I think it would be quite something to really know him.
And I think Atheist have every right that believers do, to excersize their non belief. I have said before that I think God himself is not against Atheist being Atheist. Why would the Monarch of Life, have a hissy fit just because there are humans who do not believe in him? Why would God get mad just because a human does not reconize him? I don't think we really know how God is, hes not human, not given to puffed of pride and envy, and he does not concern himself with doing harm to unbelievers, just because they do not believe.
Thats just another reason I cannot be christian, in the modern sense of the term. I don't see God rounding up millions of unbelievers and punishing them for their unbelief. " You don't believe in me so I'm going to get you!" Thats NOT God! This being holds the power to change hearts, mold consciousness, bring light! Hes not out to " Get Us!"
I truly believe that hes really not concerned with our beliefs and non beliefs as much as we think he is.
Hes concerned with our future; ALL of our futures.
Well, with a view like that I can come very close to 'agree to differ'. I can indeed respect your choice to believe as you respect my choice to disbelieve
and both of us can amicably campaign for votes.
P.s Although I don't buy into any personal gods, I don't at all rule out the possibility of something that might merit the label, especially since Mystic's sterling effort to put the link between the feelings one gets and the unexplained questions about life, the cosmos and consciousness on a scientific basis, gave me a lot to think about. I would certainly like to know about it if it was true. But would rather not approach it through Faith. One never knows what one is buying into.
There is not a lot left to be given very much credibility. As I said on my other post, I doubt you could apply that sort of critical analysis to the book in which you have such Faith, even if you could try, but I'm just saying that appeal to the soundness of the Bible is not going to cut much ice with us.
Well I complettely understand; yet the bible is defintely cutting ice with history itself. The high priest " Caiaphas", the one who judged Christ before he was taken to Pilate, and probally slapped him in the face that night; they found this mans bones, we have them. Simon of cyrenian, the one who helped Christ carry his cross; a black man, they found his bone box. Mary and Martha, two of Christ close female friends, they found their house. Incredible! They found the tomb of Lazarus himself. That cut a deep stroke in biblical history.
They found the tomb of Joseph, and, the place of the skull-" Golgotha", where Christ was crucified. Stunning finds, and serious cuts into biblical history. Christ was marched through the " Damascus Gate" on his way to being killed, they found that. These jokers even found part of the very pavement Christ stood on before Pilate, its called " The Via Dolorosa."
They have found biblical " Athens", the Mars hill and the ancient biblical city of Ephesus.
Well I complettely understand; yet the bible is defintely cutting ice with history itself. The high priest " Caiaphas", the one who judged Christ before he was taken to Pilate, and probally slapped him in the face that night; they found this mans bones, we have them. Simon of cyrenian, the one who helped Christ carry his cross; a black man, they found his bone box. Mary and Martha, two of Christ close female friends, they found their house. Incredible! They found the tomb of Lazarus himself. That cut a deep stroke in biblical history.
They found the tomb of Joseph, and, the place of the skull-" Golgotha", where Christ was crucified. Stunning finds, and serious cuts into biblical history. Christ was marched through the " Damascus Gate" on his way to being killed, they found that. These jokers even found part of the very pavement Christ stood on before Pilate, its called " The Via Dolorosa."
They have found biblical " Athens", the Mars hill and the ancient biblical city of Ephesus.
So the bible is cutting ice with history.
Someone PLEASE tell me this dude is pulling our chains.
Someone PLEASE tell me this dude is pulling our chains.
No, but he is doing more to do discredit the bible and god belief than anything we could possibly do....He should be encouraged as an example of how minds can be destroyed when belief becomes obsession.
Someone PLEASE tell me this dude is pulling our chains.
No, look it up on the internet, all I posted is true. I am not pulling chains, but I can pull more confirmed biblical history; The " Stele of Ur-Nammu", a well preserved ziggurat, confirms biblical history, a stunning find;
The entrance to " Shechem."
The " Nuzi Tablets."
"Josephs graineries."
The Temple of Queen Hatshepsut.
Rameses temple.
All these are biblical finds in archaeology, as is;
The city of " Petra."
The " Ras Shamra tablet."
The "Code of Hammurabi."
The pool of Gibeon.
The " Tel el-Amarna tablets."
The Merneptah Stele.
And the " Moabite Stone." All confirmed biblical Archaeology.
Biblical Archaeology then is a way to prove God to yourself; others may ignore these fact finds, but you can add to your confidence by looking into these finds. And while you are looking, let me show you how a " Coin" can be proof of God and validate even the bible. First century coins of Palestine were made of three metals,; gold, silver and copper. Christ refered to these three varieties in Matt. 10:9. Coins are important to archaeology because they preserve for us the likeness of dignitaries, temples and buildings which have been inscribed on them.
In Matt. 10:29-31, " Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing?" Farthings were worth about one quarter each. When Herodians sought to trap Jesus reguarding taxes, they brought him a penny at his request, which contained the image of Caesar, Matt.22:15-22. Roman coins, the Farthing was called " Quadrans", and the penny was called " Denarius."
The " Stater", ( a piece of money) Matt. 17:27, was the coin that Peter found in the mouth of a fish. It was a Greek coin, made of alloy of gold mixed with silver, and was the Temple tax for Jesus and Peter.
The " Didrachma", ( or tribute) was also a Greek coin, the value of which paid the biblical temple tax for one person, Matt. 17:24.
The " Drachma",( piece of silver) was the Greek coin lost by a woman in Luke 15:8. This coin was worth about half the value of the Didrachma.
The " Lepton" ( or " Mite") was a Greek coin, the smallest of Palestinian coins, was worth about 1/8 of a cent. This was the coin the widow used in Luke 21:1-4, commonly called " The Widows Mite."
These coins, all of them, have been unearthed by archaeologist by the thousands, and they are listed in the bible in many places , further confirming its validity, and still more evidence that the God it speaks of is real.
I see no such thing in Rev.17:17 about proving ourselves to God. And I do not believe God is after humans proving themselves to him. That puts the burden of salvation on humans, it means we have to impress God, which I do not see as the intent of Salvation. It falls to God to prove himself to humanity, and to save them.
Did you read it?...it says " when the word of God is fulfilled "...that is for us to do....and so when it is done, then God will be known by the doer!
Hence the doer fulfills all the requirements, and gains entry into the kingdom of God.....Proof is in the pudding...and you cannot enter it, until you do what is necessary!
Hence Rev 17:17 speaks about us doing something for something to take place of God...."Those who do the will of my Father shall enter Paradise"...it is a self fulfilling paradox.
And the word of God is in Genesis...So we must sinlessly restore something taken without permission......makes perfect sense...reversal of the curse comes next....right?
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