FILL IN THE BLANK: It's okay to kill a baby in the womb when ________ (hell, believe)
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Oh look, the abortion debate. I'm sure giving my personal opinion on the matter will allow someone else to see my point of view and perhaps change their own
Oh look, the abortion debate. I'm sure giving my personal opinion on the matter will allow someone else to see my point of view and perhaps change their own
You're right, yet another one isn't needed.
This subject here should be limited to debate only as it pertains to religious reasons for or against.
On that score.....can any theist give holy book ( of any flavor) condemnation of the practice or would it by necessity go back to when is it a person?
FILL IN THE BLANK: It's okay to kill a baby in the womb when ________....
When it is not a sentient being, which would be in the 11-13 weeks prior to brain-waves being exhibited in the upper cortex.
Your very own Supreme Court says that death is the absence of brain-waves. Since a fetus does not exhibit brain-waves in the first 11-13 weeks, it logically cannot be alive, and since it is not alive, it cannot be killed or murdered.
After that point, it is a sentient human being. It is aware of its own existence. At that point, an abortion is murder in the most classical definition of murder, which is to take a life with premeditation or malice aforethought, or for personal profit, personal gain or personal convenience.
The mother may also have an abortion when she is in danger of physical harm or death.
Self-defense is an innate function of the human existence. Contrary to what you might have been told, it is not a "right" or a "human right" or a "natural right."
I exist, therefore I may defend myself and my property from damage, harm, theft or death.
Since self-defense is an innate function of human existence, the mother may terminate the pregnancy at any point to prevent physical harm or her death.
Of course, the mother may also choose to continue the pregnancy in spite of the risk of damage to her own health or her own death. That is her choice.
You're right, yet another one isn't needed.
This subject here should be limited to debate only as it pertains to religious reasons for or against.
On that score.....can any theist give holy book ( of any flavor) condemnation of the practice or would it by necessity go back to when is it a person?
Maybe another thread is needed. This isn't just going away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
When it is not a sentient being, which would be in the 11-13 weeks prior to brain-waves being exhibited in the upper cortex.
Your very own Supreme Court says that death is the absence of brain-waves. Since a fetus does not exhibit brain-waves in the first 11-13 weeks, it logically cannot be alive, and since it is not alive, it cannot be killed or murdered.
After that point, it is a sentient human being. It is aware of its own existence. At that point, an abortion is murder in the most classical definition of murder, which is to take a life with premeditation or malice aforethought, or for personal profit, personal gain or personal convenience.
The mother may also have an abortion when she is in danger of physical harm or death.
Self-defense is an innate function of the human existence. Contrary to what you might have been told, it is not a "right" or a "human right" or a "natural right."
I exist, therefore I may defend myself and my property from damage, harm, theft or death.
Since self-defense is an innate function of human existence, the mother may terminate the pregnancy at any point to prevent physical harm or her death.
Of course, the mother may also choose to continue the pregnancy in spite of the risk of damage to her own health or her own death. That is her choice.
Good post Mircea, it's all about self-defense. Trust me, I know.
Edit to add: Honestly, this is a woman's right, and nothing anyone can say about it can change that. Someone bless America.
Can somebody explain why it makes a difference if the pregnancy is the result of rape, incest or spousal abuse?
It shows to me that anti-choice people are really just about 'punishing' women and girls who have sex. I assume they feel some pangs of conscience if the woman or girl was forced to have sex. So apparently it's okay to 'kill' the fetus then.
They don't seem to have a problem in forcing a woman or girl to carry a pregancy to full term and give birth against her will.
They don't seem to have much concern about the long term effects of maternal stress on the fetus in-utero.
They also don't seem to have much concern about what happens to an unwanted baby after it is born either.
So basically, it appears to me that for the anti-choice crowd, it comes down to punishing women and girls for being 'sluts' because they had sex.
When it is not a sentient being, which would be in the 11-13 weeks prior to brain-waves being exhibited in the upper cortex.
Your very own Supreme Court says that death is the absence of brain-waves. Since a fetus does not exhibit brain-waves in the first 11-13 weeks, it logically cannot be alive, and since it is not alive, it cannot be killed or murdered.
After that point, it is a sentient human being. It is aware of its own existence. At that point, an abortion is murder in the most classical definition of murder, which is to take a life with premeditation or malice aforethought, or for personal profit, personal gain or personal convenience.
The mother may also have an abortion when she is in danger of physical harm or death.
Self-defense is an innate function of the human existence. Contrary to what you might have been told, it is not a "right" or a "human right" or a "natural right."
I exist, therefore I may defend myself and my property from damage, harm, theft or death.
Since self-defense is an innate function of human existence, the mother may terminate the pregnancy at any point to prevent physical harm or her death.
Of course, the mother may also choose to continue the pregnancy in spite of the risk of damage to her own health or her own death. That is her choice.
But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.
Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration. Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester
Personally, I think that the genes of a rapist, incestual, abusive person must not be passed on... nor should a women have to suffer the caring for the child of such... nor should she suffer the parasite of the criminal for 9 months. If she doesn't see it as hers, then why should we?
The Bible says a virgin girl who was raped must marry her rapist. And the rapist must pay the girl's father 50 shekels of silver (for despoiling his property?)
Here are just a few consequences that I rarely see people mention in these debates on abortion.
1. Some women and girls will die from a range of complications associated with pregnancy and childbirth (even in developed countries -especially in countries with no national healthcare system)
2. Being forced against your will to carry an unwanted pregnancy to full term would be incredibly stressful for a girl or woman. There are studies showing the effects of maternal stress on a developing fetus - including developmental delays, lower IQ, a range of chronic illnesses, neurobehavioral problems and negative effects on a child's temperament.
4. Women with postpatum depression have problems forming normal attachments to their babies. This can can lead to Attachment disorders in children which negatively affect their normal development and lead to a whole range of problems in adulthood.
5. If the baby is born from an unwanted pregnancy, they may be adopted out or put in foster care. Again, attachment disorders are common.
6. If a woman or girl keeps a child after being forced to carry it to full term against her will, she may experience single parenthood, financial hardship, lack of social support, poorer education and vocational outcomes, resentment towards the child etc. All of these lead to a less than optimal environment for a child to develop.
"The Puebla state Attorney General's Office is now investigating whether the girl could have been raped"
What's to "investigate"? She would have been 9 years old when she conceived. When is that NOT rape of child?
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