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But even using the OT alone I can prove Jesus is the Messiah--and the Messiah is God.
It is not the same thing.
The Hebrew Bible is the Tanakh and the Bible of the Jewish people. It was in existence before the Christian scripture and had its scholarly tradition and understandings.
The Christian Bible is the Old Testament that takes books from the Hebrew Bible and adds on the New Testament.
These books are very different and have very different understanding depending if you are Jewish or Christian.
The Hebrew Bible is the Tanakh and the Bible of the Jewish people. It was in existence before the Christian scripture and had its scholarly tradition and understandings.
We use the Torah. Jesus is your Messiah. He is a Jewish man.
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The Christian Bible is the Old Testament that takes books from the Hebrew Bible and adds on the New Testament.
???
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These books are very different and have very different understanding depending if you are Jewish or Christian.
They are not the same.
Example please?
I know that my Old Testament is in a bit different order than your texts...but we have the same texts.
I know that my Old Testament is in a bit different order than your texts...but we have the same texts.
There are the many differences between the Christian version of the Jewish Bible and the Jewish version of the Jewish Bible:
According to Rabbi Marc Gellman of G-d Squad fame, "One of the most important things to understand when quoting the Bible (the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Testament) is that it was not written in English. This means you're not only reading a translation from Hebrew or Greek, but you're also often reading an interpretation masquerading as a translation."
As an example of this "interpretation masquerading as a translation", further quoting Rabbi Gellman, "The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (and the text used by Jerome to translate the Bible into Latin in the 4th century), famously translates the Hebrew verse 'and behold a young woman shall give birth' as, 'and behold a virgin shall give birth.' The Hebrew word for virgin is betula, but the word used in Isaiah 7 is alma, which just means a young woman. Obviously, if there was a verse in the Hebrew Bible predicting that a virgin would give birth, this would indeed be a stunning prediction and proof text of Jesus' virgin birth. Unfortunately, for Christians who want this to be the verse, it is not the verse."
There are the many differences between the Christian version of the Jewish Bible and the Jewish version of the Jewish Bible:
According to Rabbi Marc Gellman of G-d Squad fame, "One of the most important things to understand when quoting the Bible (the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Testament) is that it was not written in English. This means you're not only reading a translation from Hebrew or Greek, but you're also often reading an interpretation masquerading as a translation."
As an example of this "interpretation masquerading as a translation", further quoting Rabbi Gellman, "The Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (and the text used by Jerome to translate the Bible into Latin in the 4th century), famously translates the Hebrew verse 'and behold a young woman shall give birth' as, 'and behold a virgin shall give birth.' The Hebrew word for virgin is betula, but the word used in Isaiah 7 is alma, which just means a young woman. Obviously, if there was a verse in the Hebrew Bible predicting that a virgin would give birth, this would indeed be a stunning prediction and proof text of Jesus' virgin birth. Unfortunately, for Christians who want this to be the verse, it is not the verse."
I don't use Jerome's Vulgate.
Having said that, the word used for "virgin" could mean a young woman of marriage age. I'm aware of that. It is interesting though, the reaction that Mary had when she was told she'd have a baby...she knew she hadn't been with a man. She was perplexed over it. You can try to spin it any way you want...but it doesn't work.
It is interesting though, the reaction that Mary had when she was told she'd have a baby...she knew she hadn't been with a man. She was perplexed over it. You can try to spin it any way you want...but it doesn't work.
And, your source for Maryam's (Mary in Greek, Miriam in English) reaction?
And, your source for Maryam's (Mary in Greek, Miriam in English) reaction?
Mary's reaction in the new testament is actually irrelevant to the argument being made, which (if I'm reading it right) is this: the Book of Isaiah doesn't actually refer to a virgin, but just a young woman. In the more correct Hebrew Torah translations, it remains a young woman. In the falsified Christian version, it turns into a virgin.
But the fact remains that there is no prediction or prophesy of a virgin giving birth, and do it doesn't matter what Mary was, and it isn't "proof" of Jesus in the old testament.
Thomas, where do you see any disdain in what he said?
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan
G-d is G-d and there is only one, true and indivisible G-d.
Context, there's a context to things. Before that he said "Christianity and Hinduism are idolatrous; Judaism and Islam are not idolatrous" and "The worship of Jesus of Nazareth is idolatrous at it violates the 2nd Commandment prohibition against worshiping other than the one, true G-d." So in context that was another statement about Christians not being monotheist, despite what we claim, and so forth.
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Originally Posted by Jazzymom
Honestly I see more disdain in what you responded to him.
Well that strikes me as weird, but you certainly have a right to perceive as you wish.
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