Do you think Jews and Muslims are as close to god as Hindus and Christians? (lordship, soul)
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I thought about this , this morning. If all people have is God, who we cannot associate with other then rules and worship, its difficult to develop content in the association. Whats left is praise God, I am defenseless, recognize this and will follow the rules in order to achieve paradise...and not something else much less desirable. There doesn't seem to be any content to associate with other than fear and reward.
There doesn't seem to be a mediation between God and man, no bridge. Rather than chant and other forms of repeating scripture 1000's of years old, Christians have an association to role models such as Jesus, BVM, the saints, who they can more easily include in their preferred presence, for a joining of sorts, or company. God would be God, thats quite a mountain without a foothold.
So with this one grandiose God idea, the mountain only is seen, leaving its drama by comparison & subsequent style of fearful only, worship and readings.....all which represent the dialectic or personal investigation of others, not self....its not possible, theres no active model for relative association
I thought about this , this morning. If all people have is God, who we cannot associate with other then rules and worship, its difficult to develop content in the association. Whats left is praise God, I am defenseless, recognize this and will follow the rules in order to achieve paradise...and not something else much less desirable. There doesn't seem to be any content to associate with other than fear and reward.
There doesn't seem to be a mediation between God and man, no bridge. Rather than chant and other forms of repeating scripture 1000's of years old, Christians have an association to role models such as Jesus, BVM, the saints, who they can more easily include in their preferred presence, for a joining of sorts, or company. God would be God, thats quite a mountain without a foothold.
So with this one grandiose God idea, the mountain only is seen, leaving its drama by comparison & subsequent style of fearful only, worship and readings.....all which represent the dialectic or personal investigation of others, not self....its not possible, theres no active model for relative association
Muslims do have numerous role models we are urged to follow such as all the Prophets including Jesus(as) the early heroes of Islam and the earliest Scholars such as Ibn Kather. We spend very little time in repetitious rituals.
Throughout the centuries the Islamic love of Allaah(swt) has been reflected in Art, Architecture and singing. We do not submit without love.
Every revert to Islam will, without hesitation, tell you they feel the Love of God(swt) much deeper than they ever did as a Christian. Many if not most of us reverts felt very close to God(swt) and Jesus(as) during our Christian years and it is a feeling we would never give up. We now feel even closer to God(swt) and on a much deeper level than we ever did as Christians. We did not throw those feelings away, we now feel them on a much deeper and stronger level.
Muslims do have numerous role models we are urged to follow such as all the Prophets including Jesus(as) the early heroes of Islam and the earliest Scholars such as Ibn Kather. We spend very little time in repetitious rituals.
Throughout the centuries the Islamic love of Allaah(swt) has been reflected in Art, Architecture and singing. We do not submit without love.
Every revert to Islam will, without hesitation, tell you they feel the Love of God(swt) much deeper than they ever did as a Christian. Many if not most of us reverts felt very close to God(swt) and Jesus(as) during our Christian years and it is a feeling we would never give up. We now feel even closer to God(swt) and on a much deeper level than we ever did as Christians. We did not throw those feelings away, we now feel them on a much deeper and stronger level.
Change is a form of reconciliation. Willing change logically will enhance objectives which are "believed" to be in need. I had a look at the 5 prayers of Muslim life, all prayers are fear based worship...including all writings. It is all fear based without a way of praise in content. God is God. There is no possible exchange in relative association.
If a Muslim reverts to another faith, he is believed by Islamic ways, to be in betrayal and thus will not achieve paradise. True Islam will agree that other God loving people in other faiths will find paradise....
So what we have is a matter of constructive and God loving conscience. If this is so, how can a person revert to Islam, the individual will be in betrayal of conscience and therefore in attention to conscience, be doomed... How can Islam ask for people to defy conscience, when it represents in Islam, the outcome of the soul?
Change is a form of reconciliation. Willing change logically will enhance objectives. I had a look at the 5 prayers of Muslim life, all prayers are fear based worship...including all writings. It is all fear based without a way of
praise in content. God is God. There is no exchange in relative association.
Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. All Muslims including myself look forward to each of the 5 daily prayers. We do not see them as an obligation but as a break from the daily routine of life and a few minutes to speak with love to Allaah(swt).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Hue
If a Muslim reverts, he is believed by Islamic ways, to be in betrayal and thus will not achieve paradise. True Islam will agree that other God loving people in other faiths will find paradise....
We believe that once a person has found the truth of Islam, any conversion or reversion to another faith is a denial of God(swt) and as such may be seen as leaving God(swt). We do not know who will find heaven or be cast into hellfire. Only Allaah(swt) knows who dies as a Muslim (a Person who submits to God alone)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Hue
So what we have is a matter of constructive and God loving conscience. If this is so, how can a person revert to Islam, the individual will be in betrayal of conscience and therefore in attention to conscience, be doomed... How can Islam ask for people to defy conscience, when it represents in Islam, the outcome of the soul?
Oddly for myself I felt my reverting to Islam was a fulfillment of what Christianity began for me. I found it to be a completion of the teachings of Jesus(as)
I wonder if their members think their god is as close and personal to them as Jesus is to the Christians. Since I am an Atheist, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I really am curious what you all think.
Jesus isn't the Father,he's the son ,(Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God). and (John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I).
Jesus isn't close to any "believer" who sees him that way. because they're calling him a liar. Jesus showed in order to be seen as his spiritual family. we have to do his Fathers will,he never said his, (Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).
just like in the days of old, today,there are many gods. but these are,sorry, false Gods, not real, (1Cor.8:5,6- For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him). ONLY the God od Israel can save or destroy. peace
Woody, these two statements appear to contradict each other.
Praying five times a day sure seems repetitious to me.
The 5 prayers are actually quite short. ranging from 5 to 20 minutes. Each of the five differs in regards to the physical aspects. The number of rakkats and the words said or if it is done silently. The 5 prayers are a some what rigorous physical work out. Very similar to taking an exercise break. For some of us it is the closest to a physical work out gotten.
The spacing of them corresponds to an exercise program. Immediately upon waking, Mid Day. Mid afternoon, Evening and bed time. the bed time one may be said at any time from sunset to midnight. There is also considerable variations in the Quran recitations as those are at the discretion of who ever leads the prayer, or your own choice if you are doing them alone.
You can see examples of each of the 5 prayers HERE the Qur'an recitations in each are not fixed and will vary. The video I have put first is generic and simply shows the basic steps involved in the physical aspects
The 5 prayers are actually quite short. ranging from 5 to 20 minutes. Each of the five differs in regards to the physical aspects. The number of rakkats and the words said or if it is done silently. The 5 prayers are a some what rigorous physical work out. Very similar to taking an exercise break. For some of us it is the closest to a physical work out gotten.
The spacing of them corresponds to an exercise program. Immediately upon waking, Mid Day. Mid afternoon, Evening and bed time. the bed time one may be said at any time from sunset to midnight. There is also considerable variations in the Quran recitations as those are at the discretion of who ever leads the prayer, or your own choice if you are doing them alone.
You can see examples of each of the 5 prayers HERE the Qur'an recitations in each are not fixed and will vary. The video I have put first is generic and simply shows the basic steps involved in the physical aspects
Woody, I looked at the website and I was stunned - shocked - I don't even know what to say.
You say that Muslims do not do repititious prayers, but then you show me a website that is full of detailed instructions about the proper way to pray.
Do you see why an outsider like me is really puzzled by this seeming contradiction?
Woody, I looked at the website and I was stunned - shocked - I don't even know what to say.
You say that Muslims do not do repititious prayers, but then you show me a website that is full of detailed instructions about the proper way to pray.
Do you see why an outsider like me is really puzzled by this seeming contradiction?
I suppose it would look ritualistic and repetitious to a Non-Muslim. Having begun life as a Catholic and the routine of daily mass, it seems quite free of routine for me.
Well I hope you like the website, I worked hard setting it up. I still have not finished it. I began it as an online Mosque for North Dakota Muslims who have difficulty getting to a Mosque. I set the website to teach the basics of Islam to both new reverts and life long Muslims who have no contact with an Islamic community. We are quite scattered up here and seldom see each other.
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