Should Jesus have died for us? (Jehovah, grace, gospel, punished)
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Palestine was a powder keg ready to explode in 32 AD and both the Roman and Jewish leaders were trying to keep a lid on it.
Jesus knew that if he caused trouble, those leaders would punish him.
However, I think he was a nice guy and I would have liked him if I had known him. On the other hand, I really prefer people with a sense of humor. Did Jesus ever say anything funny?
According to the myth, he really did not die nor did he suffer that much. My mother had a more painful cancer death that spanned a gruesome last 3 weeks of her life requiring huge amounts of morphine for the pain.
Jesus got beat up some, nailed to a cross, stabbed in the side with a spear to bleed to death so no, not much of a painful death.
Then he is buried in a rich man's tomb, embalmed with spices and gets a hey ho wake up call less than 3 days later. My mother is still dead.
It is very odd that folk see that a temporary death appeases the "wrath of godâ„¢" when the scriptures clearly show us even the barbaric animal sacrifices were nothing more than pagan offshoots adopted by the Jews and not required, this from their beloved mythical king David. Most folk will not see this or not aware or simply interpret it to mean there was a "better sacrificeâ„¢" to come.
If the sins of man were nullified by his sacrifice then it should be as he allegedly claimed "finished". Yet the system of christianity still requires you to suck up to god and pay homage and behave yourself and not sin and and and and and....
So yes, the sacrifice (if it ever happened) was a waste of time as mankind still has not changed at the base level. Now the system requires you to "accept" this alleged "sacrifice" as atonement for the sins you are guilty of (according to Jewish scriptures) before you even make one single mistake.
The big sin is that you were born with a penis or a vagina and the natural instinct to want to join these two (necessary for reproduction) is painted with all sorts of sinful connotations and a host of additional archaic laws required before these fun parts may meet. So much so that dress codes are invented to ensure the minimum arousal esp. by the males.
Of course no one can explain really why so called born again xians still get pregnant out of wedlock - oh I forgot, they invented another dude to take the blame for this; then tend to have higher divorce rates than the non believers.
Once you have removed all the pomp and ceremony and spiritual artefacts, jesus ess. died b/c god made man to be sexually driven.
It starts with shame about your bodies and permeates the entire bible. Repressed sexuality will make folk do strange things.
Thanks to science, we now can explore and enjoy this aspect of our being w/o making too many babies and can elect when we want to actually have them. That just will not do. How dare we enjoy life.
As it turns out, the females are "programmed" to seek out a mate that will help care for any offspring that may result from copulation.
But somewhere in all of this, there is that aspect of falling in love. When this is allowed to happen naturally w/o shackles of religion and laws, usually these unions last a lifetime. We are not the only species that mate for life. We are not that special.
Sorry for the log post but this is how I see christianity and the whole control mechanism associated with it. All the other stuff we are not supposed to do like steal, murder, etc. are covered by secular laws with appropriate consequences for breaking those laws.
The last bastion of the religious is to force their sick and unnatural sex laws upon society.
The reason why we still have to follow rules according to Christians even when Jesus died for us is because Jesus volunteered to die for us if we followed his conditions. Since he is taking the beating for us, he can set conditions we have to follow in order for his sacrifice to cover us.
That is the Christian perspective. Now I myself have a problem with the whole idea of scapegoating and blood sacrifice.
We are like a two year old compared to the wisdom of the Big JC, he died for us just like we would sacrifice our lives for our children.
Hope dat be a reasonable reply.
Please speak for yourself.
Not everyone is dumb enough to believe the deceit and falsehood of religion, including the ridiculous 'sacrifice' of an innocent for the guilty.
Jesus Christ - salam be to him - did not tell people that he would redeem them, making sacrifice for their behalf.
But it was some of people of the following generation later on said such an idea.
This reminded me of the enthusiasm about Imam Ali:
Imam Ali - salam be to him - did not tell people: Glorify me; I am so great and I am infallible.
But in the second century following the Prophet death: someone told people that Imam Ali and his sons are infallible.
People at that time objected to this man: We have not heard them say such a thing that they are infallible.
The man answered: They tell me alone; because they are afraid lest the governor should hurt them, if they publicly declare such a thing!
I want to ask the question of whether it is right or necessary to kill an willing innocent victim for the crimes of the rest of us.
To me this sounds wrong because when someone does wrong to others, they deserve punishment. You don't punish someone else for their crimes because that is not what that innocent person deserves. Letting a person who deserves punishment not have that punishment is wrong. It does not matter that an innocent person wants to be punished for the crimes of the guilty, the guilty deserve punishment and the innocent does not, so the guilty should be punished.
If you think of punishment as making the guilty give back what they took, or compensating the victim and the victim's family, making sure that further crime doesn't happen again, and that further crime is discouraged, scapegoating still doesn't make sense.
Punishing an innocent person for the crimes of the guilty does not give back to the victims of the crime. It certainly does not discourage crime very much and certainly discourages crime far less than punishing the guilty because the guilty are punished less than they should.
It does not keep the guilty person from committing the crime as much. All we can do is hope that the guilty person feels bad about what he has done when he is released. In fact any benefits scapegoating has can also be received by just being merciful to the guilty person and not even punishing the innocent person.
What if a criminal was brought in for murder and was about to receive the death penalty when his mother volunteered to take his place. Would you kill the mother and let the criminal go? Use some common sense.
I will ignore responses that do not try to show why their position is true through reason.
I do not want to sound off on my rants here...The Reason why Jesus went willingly to the cross...was to show us:
1. how brutal the ruling parties were, using their lies, and underhandedness to rule out any threat to their rule, and punish them with death of a horrific nature...using that fear to control the masses..
2. To show what the people were in support of, in association to the above deeds done to many, to silence those who understud God's will and word, and laws.
3. To show the people , by way of their sin and evils, that even in death, God can raise the dead back to life, if they comply and fulfill his word, his will, and his laws , precepts, and covenants...to the letter of the law of God...not of man.
4. in his slow death, even then, Jesus asked the Father to forgive us our sins...even though some were not worthy....to show the Love God had for his son...he honoured that request.
5. When that forgiveness is : misused, or abused, and the will, word, and laws of God are blantantly rejected, and defiled, and made low in acts...and removed from our mindsets and hearts...when sin and evil rule, and humansacrifices continue making more and more death through sin and evil....then you come to ask why is it so?...because God wants us to make the right choices...by seeing how ugly humans can be....and are...
Can't hide that fact...and so...God proves to us by way of opposites...what is righteous!..for in the end that is what will be left standing..once the collisions, accedentals, and chaos cancil out.
Wink wink...Jesus said..."you are making a den of robbers sinners, evildoers, and theives", when confronted about his act on the money and the changers he kicked out of his fathers house.
So with that act done...we understand that Money is the root cause of most of the worlds problems, as it is an engrave imaged thing God said not to have before him..or in use for life giving....and it seems that is exactly what is being done still to this day....nothing is free, and they want you to pay to have....or be taxed to hell....and when destitution sets in...sin and evil abound....and Jesus stud with them....why?...because it was not their fault the Gifts God gave them, were stollen away by $atan....and allowed to be so, because most supported it....till today!...and maybe tomorrow...and the next...but eventually sharing and caring will come to them who know....it is better to give, and share...of what has been given to all living things..that right to life....freely Given...
When that is put into the equation, you become part of the problem if you use money....and pay taxes...and support warfare, oppression, sanctions, and sin or evil or corruption, lies or liars...they are all part of the anti of God...and if you use their IDOL...you will find them in your reality.
Plain and simple....so who is the sinner, or evildoer really...the one doing the act of sin or evil, or the one causing the need for the actor to be...or both?
Thus forgive yourself first, by trying to be out of the loop...then one can make a more sound Judgement.
I do not want to sound off on my rants here...The Reason why Jesus went willingly to the cross...was to show us:
1. how brutal the ruling parties were, using their lies, and underhandedness to rule out any threat to their rule, and punish them with death of a horrific nature...using that fear to control the masses..
2. To show what the people were in support of, in association to the above deeds done to many, to silence those who understud God's will and word, and laws.
3. To show the people , by way of their sin and evils, that even in death, God can raise the dead back to life, if they comply and fulfill his word, his will, and his laws , precepts, and covenants...to the letter of the law of God...not of man.
4. in his slow death, even then, Jesus asked the Father to forgive us our sins...even though some were not worthy....to show the Love God had for his son...he honoured that request.
5. When that forgiveness is : misused, or abused, and the will, word, and laws of God are blantantly rejected, and defiled, and made low in acts...and removed from our mindsets and hearts...when sin and evil rule, and humansacrifices continue making more and more death through sin and evil....then you come to ask why is it so?...because God wants us to make the right choices...by seeing how ugly humans can be....and are...
Can't hide that fact...and so...God proves to us by way of opposites...what is righteous!..for in the end that is what will be left standing..once the collisions, accedentals, and chaos cancil out.
Wink wink...Jesus said..."you are making a den of robbers sinners, evildoers, and theives", when confronted about his act on the money and the changers he kicked out of his fathers house.
So with that act done...we understand that Money is the root cause of most of the worlds problems, as it is an engrave imaged thing God said not to have before him..or in use for life giving....and it seems that is exactly what is being done still to this day....nothing is free, and they want you to pay to have....or be taxed to hell....and when destitution sets in...sin and evil abound....and Jesus stud with them....why?...because it was not their fault the Gifts God gave them, were stollen away by $atan....and allowed to be so, because most supported it....till today!...and maybe tomorrow...and the next...but eventually sharing and caring will come to them who know....it is better to give, and share...of what has been given to all living things..that right to life....freely Given...
When that is put into the equation, you become part of the problem if you use money....and pay taxes...and support warfare, oppression, sanctions, and sin or evil or corruption, lies or liars...they are all part of the anti of God...and if you use their IDOL...you will find them in your reality.
Plain and simple....so who is the sinner, or evildoer really...the one doing the act of sin or evil, or the one causing the need for the actor to be...or both?
Thus forgive yourself first, by trying to be out of the loop...then one can make a more sound Judgement.
You did not even show how Jesus' death saves us from our sins. Try to do so in your next post.
Was Jesuspeace be upon him contented with the idea of sacrifice or redemption , I don't think so? AND I don't believe the crucification happened !
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