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Old 10-24-2007, 02:12 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,271,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satanoid View Post
Abandoning reason to achieve understanding is like like closing your eyes to find your way home from the woods.
If you have a Guide it's not that bad...
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Now if only we could agree on what is "reason" and "understanding".
Pretty clear.

If I asked you to turn off the TV, such a request is reasoned. If I asked you to turn off the glass of water, such a request would not be reasoned.

If, after asking you to turn off the TV, you closed the back door, you would not have any understanding of my request.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Pretty clear.

If I asked you to turn off the TV, such a request is reasoned. If I asked you to turn off the glass of water, such a request would not be reasoned.
If I told you to turn off the quertyfuzz, and you had never heard of or experienced it, you would also think I was being unreasonable.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
If I told you to turn off the quertyfuzz, and you had never heard of or experienced it, you would also think I was being unreasonable.
No. I would ask you to define quertyfuzz. If you defined qwertyfuzz as "the act of travelling underwater through the air," then I'd say qwertyfuzz is meaningless.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:22 PM
 
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Using human-based perceptions to define supernatural properties is about as logical as using a caveman's grunts to explain string theory.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
No. I would ask you to define quertyfuzz. If you defined qwertyfuzz as "the act of travelling underwater through the air," then I'd say qwertyfuzz is meaningless.
If I told you that quertyfuzz only came around at a certain time of the year, and that in order for me to show it to you, you would have to give me all your cash and assets (two weeks in advance), not see or hear from me for two weeks and then meet me somewhere and you would see quertyfuzz, would you do it?
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sean98125 View Post
Using human-based perceptions to define supernatural properties is about as logical as using a caveman's grunts to explain string theory.
Yet, this is exactly what believers attempt when describing God/the Bible/faith/etc.

As such, any such attempts at understanding or decription are fruitless (using your comment above).
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
If I told you that quertyfuzz only came around at a certain time of the year, and that in order for me to show it to you, you would have to give me all your cash and assets (two weeks in advance), not see or hear from me for two weeks and then meet me somewhere and you would see quertyfuzz, would you do it?
Of course not. Point?
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Of course not. Point?
That's why alot of people never see quertyfuzz. They don't have faith, and are not willing to take the risks. They'd rather hang onto their cash then see quertyfuzz, who will immediately and abundantly give them more than they ever dreamed of. And so, they never understand what quertyfuzz is and deny its existence.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Yet, this is exactly what believers attempt when describing God/the Bible/faith/etc.

As such, any such attempts at understanding or decription are fruitless (using your comment above).
It is what believers attempt when trying to explain the non-verbal feelings and experiences we have as part of our faith. It is indeed fruitless to explain them perfectly in words since the experience itself is non-verbal. Human language only has so much capacity to explain things, and its not logical to assume that various combinations of 26 letters have the power to describe every aspect of existence.

I can't explain in words what I feel when I look at my daughter laughing as she plays in a fountain. I can come close, but unless you have had a similar experience you really aren't going to understand it. Other parents, though, will get it right away. It's the same thing with faith.
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