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Im Atheist, but am very highly skeptical of this claim.
Why would Roman aristocrats concoct a fable whos tenets undermine their own value system and ethos. It would be as if they plantined a meme into the society that would lead to their own eventual demise.
Now were it some other group, say a group of Greek influened intellectuals, or some outcast or marginalized subgroup, then it would be more believable.
I suspect this hypothesis will have its 2 minutes of fame, then be forgotten quickly.
I'm gonna agree with you here. While I do believe Rome took the idea of Christianity and turned it into politics through Constantine and others, I don't believe that they would have came up with the idea themselves.
Here is what I think: I am a follower of Jesus Christ and as I grow older realize how little I truly know about so many things. I believe in intellectual creation, although how it actually all came about can very easily be the way science explains it...through personal experience I know what I know and have no problems when others refute the existence of God or the divinity of Jesus Christ.
However, I remember what someone told me a long time ago:
"If we (Christians/believers in Jesus) are wrong, it won't matter anyway when we die...but if we are right, it is going to matter a great deal."
I'm a bit confused here. This is being presented as "a controversial new discovery" when in fact Joseph Atwill laid out the theory and evidence in his 2006 book "Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus." We kicked it around some in the History Forum a while back in a thread about the historical validity of Jesus.
American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013).
Yeah and there are supposed experts that claim the Jewish Holocaust never happened and that they can prove it. I'm not buying that one either.
Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-10-2013 at 07:03 AM..
Reason: bait for a derailment
But of course, if the Koran is right ...then we heathens are likely in a better place because we didn't choose the wrong one. I suspect choosing the wrong one would draw more ire from a "jealous god" than not choosing at all; especially if you didn't fully explore all or even any of the other religions with the same "open your heart to the truth" enthusiasm you ask others give to yours.
I think that would make "an angry god" very angry indeed.
If the Koran is right then Christians and Jews are "people of the book" and we'll all be just fine in the next life. Atheists on the other hand ... not so much.
Not sure if this has been noted yet, as I have not read the entire thread - but Joseph Atwill is what is known as an "Independent Scholar" - which means his training and current status are very questionable. I think whatever he presents will be less than compelling.
He's an investor who made money off of the whole Dot.Com boom. Not really holding my breath here. Read this article on the claims of Atwill (current and previous), nicely debunked by an actual Biblical Scholar. Sorry, Seeker.
Like I said, let us see what smoking gun he comes up with, it matters not to me as I am not looking for another chin.k in the armour, as that has already been dissed 10 years ago. I never heard of him before.
What is interesting is the theist responses and lo and behold Pascal's wager was offered multiple times.
I prefer deciding what is true based on what there is actually arguments, evidence, data and reasons to think is true. Not simply "taking chances" like some kind of living embodiment of Pascals Wager.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
A biblical scholar saying God's Son is a fabrication - imagine that. This is what happens when you study the Bible without the Holy Spirit inside of you.
By which you simply mean "Study it without the presupposition it is all true". Confirmation Bias much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Yes - anyone who is a true believer has the testimony of God within them.
In other words you believe it because you believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
In a world of uncertainty, it's good to know God and His Son.
No. In a world of ignorance and uncertainty it is good to push back the veil of ignorance through study, learning and discovery. Making stuff up and running with it in order to pretend you are not uncertain when in fact you are is unhelpful at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede
We have "made up our minds" on the basis of 2,000 years of church history, biblical scholarship, and personal observation and experience (ours and others') -- pretty much the way that any sane person, including those who embrace the religion of materialistic scientism
Calling things a religion that are not religions does little but make you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.
The vast difference between how you claim to have made up your mind... and science.... is that everything in science is verifiable today by anyone who cares to try. Your church history is nothing more than a long line of unsubstantiated but oft repeated assertions based on literally zero arguments, evidence, data or reasoning.
The difference could not be more clear and I guess the only way to hide yourself from it is to pretend things are religions because that is the only thought process that makes sense to you.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-10-2013 at 07:08 AM..
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