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The irony here is so thick, you'd need a jackhammer tipped with the fragment of a pulsar to so much as chip it.
Freedom of religion? SERIOUSLY? REALLY!?!
The irony is that you don't WANT religious freedom, which is why you soil the very word when you type it with your fingers.
In fact, you want precisely the opposite: Theocratic fascism -- whereby everyone, regardless of belief, is required by law to adhere to and obey your strict, rigid, and oppressive form of Christianity.
I like this description. May I steal it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
What gives your religion, nay, your personal religious views, the right to run roughshod over everyone else's personal choices? What gives that Kentucky clerk that right? What part of her job allows her to stand in moral judgment of those who legally seek a marriage license? Please, by all means, show me that in her job description and I'll shut my mouth.
The fact is that religious freedom becomes null and void the moment one specific interpretation of one specific religion begins making law that everyone must obey. Banning gay marriage would only demonstrate the primacy of fundamentalist Christianity at the expense of ALL other freedoms. The 1st Amendment only gives YOU the right to worship as you wish, meaning you are free to refrain from marrying another man. It gives the clerk the freedom to choose NOT to marry another woman. However, that freedom ends at the tip of your nose and it's high time you figure that out. The moment your "religious freedom" interferes with the lives of others -- especially those who haven't been bamboozled by stupid and archaic Hebrew laws -- is the moment your freedom ends and MY freedom begins.
And historically that is exactly what has happened in the U.S. of A.
Because, yeah, though this might come as a staggering shock to you, the REST of us have freedoms, too. That includes homosexuals. Both the Supreme Court AND a majority of Americans have figured that out.
Freedom of Religion does NOT mean: "Fundamentalists (and ONLY fundamentalists) always get their way irrespective of American majority opinion, the U.S. Constitution, or the Supreme Court."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
The ONLY way our society works is if we respect the law. If you want to be like Westboro and picket public buildings where gay marriage licenses are issued, fine, you have that right. But to simply disobey laws results in anarchy. One thing that I've always hated about "civil disobedience" is that it usually affects innocent people without any meaningful results. I remember when anti-war protesters were deliberately blocking roads so that people couldn't get to work, couldn't get to the store, and heaven forbid if someone had needed to get to the hospital in a timely fashion -- and none of those people were responsible for the war in Iraq. Thus we now have a thoughtless and selfish county clerk affecting the lives of innocent homosexual couples who simply want to avail themselves of their RIGHT to be married.
And, of course, you'll defend her because, to you, YOUR religious beliefs and YOUR myopic and oppressive worldview are all that matters.
Amen to part one.
It worked with Viet Nam--although very slowly. That was my war and I was a Marine 1volunteer who served over there until I saw the disgusting things that were happening--then I became an anti-war individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Yes, even we atheists lose battles sometimes. I would have liked to have seen "under God" removed from the Pledge but we lost that fight. So what did we atheists do? We simply went on with our lives. You don't see atheists burning flags, going batcrap crazy, and using whatever positions of power we might have to stop everyone from saying "under God" when the Pledge is recited. We don't act like a spoiled toddler who was just told "no" and now must throw a fit and disrupt his surroundings in some immature hissy.
You lost. End of story. You AND this knucklehead clerk need to get it through your skulls that you lost. I can guarantee you without hesitation that this ruling will not be overturned any time in the near or even distant future.
I remember having to practice in school the "new" pledge of allegiance after religious zealots got it added to the pledge. I've always thought God to be the God of ALL the world, but Americans wanted to do what theologian Paul Tillich warned them about after WWII---turn God into a tribal god---sinking back into the Hebraic tribal god motif.
Ah, Shrina, you are an excellent debater. Now if only Spirit filled Christ followers could just recruit----ah, well, maybe like Arequipa, we'll have to get you in the next life!
And the supreme court has denied a stay for the county clerk. She will be expected to follow the lower courts decision that she is required to issue marriage licenses starting tomorrow.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,928,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
And the supreme court has denied a stay for the county clerk. She will be expected to follow the lower courts decision that she is required to issue marriage licenses starting tomorrow.
The irony here is so thick, you'd need a jackhammer tipped with the fragment of a pulsar to so much as chip it.
Freedom of religion? SERIOUSLY? REALLY!?!
The irony is that you don't WANT religious freedom, which is why you soil the very word when you type it with your fingers.
In fact, you want precisely the opposite: Theocratic fascism -- whereby everyone, regardless of belief, is required by law to adhere to and obey your strict, rigid, and oppressive form of Christianity.
Oppressive? The only thing I see OPPRESSIVE here is the gay agenda that is DEMANDING everyone regardless of faith bend and yield to their demands. From what I know, the woman never held the position that she wanted the state of Kentucky to never issue any licenses to gay people every again. Her position was that she didn't think she should had a proverbial gun put to her head forcing HER to violate her personal convictions. Like she said, there are over 100 other places that gay couples could get a marriage license there. But that's not good enough. No, gay people demand that she personally give up her beliefs or pay the consequence of losing her job. Where is the oppression huh?
It's funny how when it comes to other religions, I see accommodations made in respect to their beliefs. For example, I once had a Jordanian Muslim boss, and despite the work load, it was understood not to disturb him at a certain hour so he could do his daily prayers. But Christians? Heaven forbid if we even dare display a Bible verse in public! Oh the humanity, the horror!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Freedom of Religion does NOT mean: "Fundamentalists (and ONLY fundamentalists) always get their way irrespective of American majority opinion, the U.S. Constitution, or the Supreme Court."
No, but it does mean that the government shouldn't be making laws that interfer with the free exercise of religion. Apparently you think we should check our faith at the door as soon as we leave the church doorsteps.
No, certainly not. However, you DO need to keep your faith in check when exercising it deprives another individual of their fundamental, legal freedoms.
Oppressive? The only thing I see OPPRESSIVE here is the gay agenda that is DEMANDING everyone regardless of faith bend and yield to their demands.
Agreed. You make some excellent points. At one time, gays were oppressed, but now they have become the oppressors. Both extremes are wrong.
People throw around the word "hater". The word is used like a club to subdue anyone who doesn't agree with the gay agenda. Christians who are sincere in their beliefs and want only to stay true to their faith are being persecuted. The hate I witness is directed at them, not coming from them.
Agreed. You make some excellent points. At one time, gays were oppressed, but now they have become the oppressors. Both extremes are wrong.
People throw around the word "hater". The word is used like a club to subdue anyone who doesn't agree with the gay agenda. Christians who are sincere in their beliefs and want only to stay true to their faith are being persecuted. The hate I witness is directed at them, not coming from them.
How is a county clerk being required to do her job persecution?
Oppressive? The only thing I see OPPRESSIVE here is the gay agenda that is DEMANDING everyone regardless of faith bend and yield to their demands. From what I know, the woman never held the position that she wanted the state of Kentucky to never issue any licenses to gay people every again. Her position was that she didn't think she should had a proverbial gun put to her head forcing HER to violate her personal convictions. Like she said, there are over 100 other places that gay couples could get a marriage license there. But that's not good enough. No, gay people demand that she personally give up her beliefs or pay the consequence of losing her job. Where is the oppression huh?
It's funny how when it comes to other religions, I see accommodations made in respect to their beliefs. For example, I once had a Jordanian Muslim boss, and despite the work load, it was understood not to disturb him at a certain hour so he could do his daily prayers. But Christians? Heaven forbid if we even dare display a Bible verse in public! Oh the humanity, the horror!!!!
No, but it does mean that the government shouldn't be making laws that interfer with the free exercise of religion. Apparently you think we should check our faith at the door as soon as we leave the church doorsteps.
She is not giving up her beliefs by giving people a marriage license. It doesn't affect her beliefs in any way.
Your example of the Muslim boss doesn't really make much sense in this argument. If he would refuse to do business with Jews because it violated his religion it would be similar to this case.
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