Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He wouldn't treat people like crap either. So He can't be an atheist.
You have it backwards Jeff, secular societies are more tolerant and accepting of gay rights and women's rights, are more moral, commit fewer crimes and are and far less violent than religious societies. In America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be highly religious, but the states with the lowest murder rates are among the least religious in the country.
You have it backwards Jeff, secular societies are more tolerant and accepting of gay rights and women's rights, are more moral, commit fewer crimes and are and far less violent than religious societies. In America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be highly religious, but the states with the lowest murder rates are among the least religious in the country.
Utah is highly religious and has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. The states that are highly religious also happen to be the ones with most people on welfare and high poverty rates. Ever heard of Appalachia?
Also, I don't think states like Maryland are highly religious yet they have horrible crime problems.
Not if they subscribe to a religious viewpoint that does not recognize the same sins yours does. Then it's just an insult.
You mean like it's an insult to tell me that the Word of God is barbaric and my beliefs are a fairy tale? Funny how it is perfectly fine to treat us with disrespect.
So Jesus was treating people like crap when He preached against their sin? Warning someone against the dangers of sin is actually a kind thing to do.
Except for when you are the one who creates the rules around sin and are the danger to be avoided.
Rather than simply make people who can't sin, he makes people who might want to and banishes them to eternal torment for whatever motivations you believe he has.
A bit like holding somebody's arm, repeatedly using their arm to punch themselves in the face, and telling them "quit hitting yourself, quit hitting yourself". You should let go of their arm and stop being an ass.
So Jesus was treating people like crap when He preached against their sin? Warning someone against the dangers of sin is actually a kind thing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Not if they subscribe to a religious viewpoint that does not recognize the same sins yours does. Then it's just an insult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You mean like it's an insult to tell me that the Word of God is barbaric and my beliefs are a fairy tale? Funny how it is perfectly fine to treat us with disrespect.
Once again, you completely twisted what I said.
You said: "Warning someone against the dangers of sin is actually a kind thing to do."
I replied: "Not if they subscribe to a religious viewpoint that does not recognize the same sins yours does. Then it's just an insult."
What I said was that if a person is not a Christian (meaning his is not a follower of Jesus), then telling him that Jesus said what he does is a sin and will send him to Hell will not be seen as a "kind thing to do," but will be seen as an insult.
I have no idea how you twisted that around to get to: "You mean like it's an insult to tell me that the Word of God is barbaric and my beliefs are a fairy tale? Funny how it is perfectly fine to treat us with disrespect." That comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Please explain what you mean here. If , as it sort of appears from reading you throughout this thread, you are one of those who get some weird satisfaction and enjoyment from simply stirring things up, it would help to know ahead of time how serious to take your posts and how much time to devote towards attempting an honest and straightforward discussion with you , me being new and unfamiliar with you and all.
Your attempted point here is essentially worthless. By your definition, a belief or disbelief in anything at all is a matter of faith in your decision. I cant have believe that 2 apples in my right hand and 2 apples in my left equal 4 apples, I must just have faith that this is so. I cant believe that me being almost a carbon copy of my father , so much so that at my granddads funeral acting as a pallbearer some older relatives thought I WAS him, means that I am truly his biological son, I just have to have faith that this is so. If you personally so choose to redefine the word, so be it for you, but others don't have to accept such a silly and confusing definition , which is pointless even if accepted. So you can say that I have faith that creationism is wrong. So what? It wouldn't be the normal use of the word as most use it , which is believing without evidence to support your belief, so what have you gained? Your silly definition of faith and the one most people use are not synonymous, and so useless in any real sense in a discussion, and of value only as an arguing point on your part. I believe that many aspects of the Christian narrative are wrong, from creationism to prayer to the moral superiority of Christians. This belief isn't based on faith as defined as believing without evidence , but in a belief that there is a distinct lack of evidence to support these claims by some Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Essentially what you're doing is making the word "faith" utterly meaningless by claiming believing in facts not in evidence, such as religion, is exactly the same thing as believing in something well established by science and experimentation -- such as the laws of gravity.
Now that everything is mere faith, including the argumentum ad absurdum fallacy that we even have to take our own existences on faith, the entire argument becomes moot. If all "faiths" are created equal, then why not mosey off the lip of the Grand Canyon and see what happens? Ah, but you won't, I'm sure, because you KNOW you will fall and die, and that overrides your fluffy "faith" that maybe you don't exist so gravity can't affect you.
Nice try, though.
Most don't feel comfortable with the fact that everything we assume we know is nothing but so-called data, facts, and knowledge we must take on FAITH that it is really so.
Conveniently, the thread "Are We Simulations" was just revived. Check it out. We don't REALLY know if that is not the real deal.
Bottom Line: No matter how radical or how seemingly absurd & crazy something might seem...or whatever example that can be proffered that would seem like it is a "100% given" and can be stated with certainty and conviction...it could STILL not be the way it actually is. Rediculous challenges to faith, like jumping off cliffs are ignorant. Typically the challenge is being given to someone that has faith in their assumption that if they did that they would be harmed or killed, in spite of the possibility their assumption is wrong...thus, they wouldn't do it, unless they wanted to hurt themselves.
So, one should never get all haughty and puffed up about how the religious are so stupid and so deluded compared to them. ALL "knowledge" is faith based...theirs no more than yours. That you might be bothered by that, or want to think that is not the way it really is...doesn't change that it is.
Of course, I have FAITH that what I just said is correct. I also have faith that religious dogma is wrong and what I think is right. But, that's just my faith based call on the issue.
You said: "Warning someone against the dangers of sin is actually a kind thing to do."
I replied: "Not if they subscribe to a religious viewpoint that does not recognize the same sins yours does. Then it's just an insult."
What I said was that if a person is not a Christian (meaning his is not a follower of Jesus), then telling him that Jesus said what he does is a sin and will send him to Hell will not be seen as a "kind thing to do," but will be seen as an insult.
I have no idea how you twisted that around to get to: "You mean like it's an insult to tell me that the Word of God is barbaric and my beliefs are a fairy tale? Funny how it is perfectly fine to treat us with disrespect." That comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Sure it does. In that they are BOTH insults.
The Christian telling the Non Christian that his actions constitute sin and he will burn in Hell for it...is an insult.
The NonChristian telling the Christian he believes in a barbaric fairytale...is an insult.
Though is seems that is what people are naturally best at...insulting and mocking those different from them. And that is a big part of the negative vibe in this world.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
