Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If the Gideon Bible is in hotel rooms so should all the holy books of other religions be there too. As no one religion is truer than any other that would be only fair.
Nonsense. These are private enterprises, not our government. There is no separation of church and state issue involved. The extremists are exactly as jeff describes, extremists with an unjustified agenda. The two private enterprises agree to allow the Bibles as part of the room accomodations, period. There is no coercion or government involvement.
Nonsense. These are private enterprises, not our government. There is no separation of church and state issue involved. The extremists are exactly as jeff describes, extremists with an unjustified agenda. The two private enterprises agree to allow the Bibles as part of the room accomodations, period. There is no coercion or government involvement.
Did you not see where this was about STATE RUN LODGINGS? They aren't private enterprises. They aren't lobbying to have them removed from the Marriott down the street, unless that Marriott is run by a University or something.
But it doesn't have to be arbitrary, like faith in the literalist interpretations of the Christian Bible stories. I have faith in the love and compassion of my religious community. It isn't something I can see, but I believe in its power and strength. And more importantly, it doesn't require me to place anything on anyone else. It doesn't constrain anyone else believing what they believe, valuing what they value, etc.
More tangibly, my faith in my religion doesn't constrain anyone else marrying whom they love - but Dominionism asserts such constraint on American society, even today after the SCOTUS said it was wrong for religious constraints to be imposed on anyone wanting to marry in our society. My faith in my religion doesn't force anyone to sit or stand through a prayer consistent with my religious beliefs - but Dominionism asserts that kind of imposition related to Christian dogma on American society, excusing those who use positions of power to commit such imposition instead of sanctioning them for the violation and the imbalance that their conduct promotes.
And most importantly in the context of this thread: My faith in my religion doesn't use state resources to support, foster and otherwise put my religion front and center in society - but Dominionism asserts such use in the interest of Christianity on American society.
My beliefs are grounded in what God has done in my life since I surrendered to Him 19 years ago. Nothing you or any one else says on here will alter that at all. You are free to believe whatever you choose.
Do you really believe that? Or is what you're saying that we are "free" to accommodate your belief as you demand, because the corruption of Dominionism in American life protects your beliefs but not ours? That's the question. This is critical: If you think anyone has said anything whatsoever about you being prohibited from believing what you want to believe, then you're simply not paying attention. So assuming you are paying attention, then all we're discussing here is the intercession of one person's religion (your religion) into the secular life of someone else (whether that be someone of another religion, like me, or an atheist).
So I'm asking you to practice some intellectual honesty, and reply to what I actually wrote, instead of posting another deflection. I'd really like you to weigh in on the matter I raised to you, i.e., the question of why your faith should affect my life as you see fit, but my faith shouldn't affect your life in the same exact way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Nonsense. These are private enterprises, not our government.
Incorrect. This is a state-run institution being discussed.
Neither your nor my opinions have any lasting value. God does however, and your denial of Him changes nothing. If it helps you feel intellectually "superior" to believers, have at it.
I have gone to some effort to make it clear that I neither feel, nor inherently am, intellectually superior to believers. I obviously have arrived at conclusions that are at odds with believers and there is no point in pretending that anyone arrives at a conclusion that they don't consider the best one, at least for them ... but this does not make me superior. It just provides me with a rationally and factually more defensible belief.
You keep forgetting that I once believed as you do. I am neither more nor less intelligent now than I was, I simply have fewer constraints on the conclusions I am "allowed" to draw about reality as it presents itself.
I have gone to some effort to make it clear that I neither feel, nor inherently am, intellectually superior to believers. I obviously have arrived at conclusions that are at odds with believers and there is no point in pretending that anyone arrives at a conclusion that they don't consider the best one, at least for them ... but this does not make me superior. It just provides me with a rationally and factually more defensible belief.
You keep forgetting that I once believed as you do. I am neither more nor less intelligent now than I was, I simply have fewer constraints on the conclusions I am "allowed" to draw about reality as it presents itself.
No insult intended here. I go by Faith, you go by rational and logic. Sorry if I offended you.
I personally believe that SOME non believers think they are smarter because they think believers are naive and believe in fairy tales. I also believe intelligence and education can be a barrier to believing. Many people want scientific proof of God- they will never get it on this earth. Faith is believing "without seeing". Whether one consciously believes the following or not (since there is no God or supreme being, that makes me the highest form of life), that is what it boils down to. If man is the highest form of life anywhere, we are all in trouble!! Conscious decision or not, humility is required to admit I can't do it alone, and I need help from someone greater than me. Pride keeps people from doing this.
It depends upon your definition of "trouble". If you believe we will all have struggles through life, only to die at the end, is "trouble", then you are correct. If you believe that innocent children continuing to die via wars, starvation, and natural disasters is "trouble", then you are correct again. If you believe that "trouble" is the Earth as we know it ending in a collision with an asteroid or comet, or the Sun imploding, you are probably right. If you consider all of these "trouble", then you will admit that man is indeed the highest form of life that we know of. If you think that these events will not happen then you could be right about there being a supreme being who is compassionate enough to stop these "troubles".
No insult intended here. I go by Faith, you go by rational and logic. Sorry if I offended you.
I wonder what other decisions you make based on Faith. Assuming you have children, do you choose their doctors based on faith or by logic and evidence? Do you buy your major purchases, i.e. cars, houses, based on faith as well? Or would you prefer to look at service records, reliability ratings, structural soundness before making your decisions about which to buy?
I wonder what other decisions you make based on Faith. Assuming you have children, do you choose their doctors based on faith or by logic and evidence?
Now we're getting into some tough territory. While fact-checking some comments about religion in Germany yesterday, I learned that children can be removed from the custody of their Jehovah's Witnesses parents on the basis of the parents' unwillingness to allow the religiously-proscribed medical procedures. In the United States, generally, the state won't take action until the child is harmed. Even then, we're not very consistent: Sometimes the parents are convicted, sometimes the parents are acquitted, and there is even one case where parents were convicted and then the conviction overturned. This inconsistency is a clear reflection of the power of Dominionism in American society, the deliberate permissiveness regarding the infliction of religious values onto someone other than the holder of that religious value. This corruption isn't always so severe, but it pervades so much of American life.
I wonder what other decisions you make based on Faith. Assuming you have children, do you choose their doctors based on faith or by logic and evidence? Do you buy your major purchases, i.e. cars, houses, based on faith as well? Or would you prefer to look at service records, reliability ratings, structural soundness before making your decisions about which to buy?
I've said all I have to say to you, If you can't be respectful and polite, that's your problem.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
