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When my son was a toddler, he would attribute ulterior motives to why I would not let him have junk food before dinner, never accepting my explanation that I wanted him to have healthy food before junk. Mostly he did not like my answer, did not really care about my reason, and decided that he might be able to guilt me into it if he pretended to believe that the real reason was that I was just a big fat meanie. This thread feels a little like that experience.
Yes, they are essentially saying, "You are all lying. This is the what you really believe...."
I guess they have been told what to believe for so long that it's all they know...
I can see where, say, perhaps some very dedicated "Vegans" might object to the guv'mint using THEIR tax dollars to slaughter and butcher and cook and serve up MEAT to persons in guv'mint institutions -- the military, schools, prisons, hospitals, etc., etc., not only for dietary reasons but out of deeply held ethical values …
But like it or not in a Liberal Democracy, "accommodation" is a significant principle, fully recognized and guaranteed in the First Amendment, the Fourteenth, etc., as well as in SCOTUS decisions ...
I just don't see what is so hard for them to understand. They have people telling them "This is what I believe", or "This is what we believe", yet they keep on with their tired old "You want us to stay in our homes and hide our religion". This is after being told by multiple people that this is not true.
This is not rocket science here people!
No they take what one person has stated somewhere in the world which may have been taken out of context and apply it to all of us. However they will not accept that for those of their faith who speak of bigotry or hatred. If all atheists or even all new athests are to have the same view as whoever he claims wants religion totally gone they the fundamentalists must all have the same views are Rick Wild, Pastor Manning, the guy who went to Uganda in an attempt to make homosexuality a captial offense or even Pat Robertson. But they do not even though most of those are pastors within a Christian dedomination whereas a spokesperson for athesism is simply someone who declares themselves an athesist and speaks on it.
No double standards. If one reads the comments on the thread about fundamentalists wanting to kill abortion providers one sees that Christians quickly distance themselves from that retroric however they totally ignore if we distanced ourselves from the more radical on our side, if there are sides.
They seem to not want to understand that we are not the same as each other. Are there only two options, either believe in the Bible as the literal truth or want to destroy those who believe the Bible is the literal truth? The reason that several of them are on my ignore list is that those do not discuss honestly, they are not intersesting in backing their views or finding out what are views are, their only interest is to win some sort of word games. There are also some who appear unable or unwilling to appreciate the points we are making. They are not on my ignore list as they seem honest in their posting, even if they totally miss our intensions.
Your side has done quite a good job of raising a generation who can effectively be completely shut out of any exposure to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Not true. Bibles are available in public libraries and they are for sale at Walmart. 'Jesus Saves' is on billboards and anyone can walk into a Christian church (FYI there are THOUSANDS) to hear the gospel being preached.
You live in a very bizarre part of the country if the gospel of Jesus Christ is shut out.
No they take what one person has stated somewhere in the world which may have been taken out of context and apply it to all of us. However they will not accept that for those of their faith who speak of bigotry or hatred. If all atheists or even all new athests are to have the same view as whoever he claims wants religion totally gone they the fundamentalists must all have the same views are Rick Wild, Pastor Manning, the guy who went to Uganda in an attempt to make homosexuality a captial offense or even Pat Robertson. But they do not even though most of those are pastors within a Christian dedomination whereas a spokesperson for athesism is simply someone who declares themselves an athesist and speaks on it.
No double standards. If one reads the comments on the thread about fundamentalists wanting to kill abortion providers one sees that Christians quickly distance themselves from that retroric however they totally ignore if we distanced ourselves from the more radical on our side, if there are sides.
They seem to not want to understand that we are not the same as each other. Are there only two options, either believe in the Bible as the literal truth or want to destroy those who believe the Bible is the literal truth? The reason that several of them are on my ignore list is that those do not discuss honestly, they are not intersesting in backing their views or finding out what are views are, their only interest is to win some sort of word games. There are also some who appear unable or unwilling to appreciate the points we are making. They are not on my ignore list as they seem honest in their posting, even if they totally miss our intensions.
Exactly …
Not all persons of faith … are unreasonable Fundies, or demand "prayer in public schools," or oppose Roe v. Wade and Griswold v. Connecticut, or want to silence other points of view, or oppose full inclusion of GLBT persons in society, etc. …
Again, the nature of a Liberal Democratic society is balance and accommodation rather than "winner take all" … I don't see these tussles as being about "sides," but rather about human "differences" and how to include everyone ...
But indeed, one of the "New Atheist" zealot missionaries (above) did indeed claim that people of fair should just stay home or in church ...
I'd be OK if you'd just stay out of our schools. I'd agree to Gideon bibles in motel rooms if you'd get out of our science books and classrooms. Shoot, y'all agree to drop the anti-gay BS and I'd agree to a manger scene on the White House lawn.
Bibles are available in public libraries and they are for sale at Walmart. 'Jesus Saves' is on billboards and anyone can walk into a Christian church (FYI there are THOUSANDS) to hear the gospel being preached.
You live in a very bizarre part of the country if the gospel of Jesus Christ is shut out.
BINGO … So a few Bibles, more or less, in motel rooms will be No Big Deal …
Not all persons of faith … are unreasonable Fundies, or demand "prayer in public schools," or oppose Roe v. Wade and Griswold v. Connecticut, or want to silence other points of view, or oppose full inclusion of GLBT persons in society, etc. …
Again, the nature of a Liberal Democratic society is balance and accommodation rather than "winner take all" … I don't see these tussles as being about "sides," but rather about human "differences" and how to include everyone ...
True and I almost totally agree with you. I think many of those against the Bibles going into the government owned motels have aleady stated that it was not a big deal to them. The debate, if one can call it that, is whether the law allows or does not allow the Bibles in a government owned motel. Or if there is any cost at all involved to the taxpayers.
In my world this is the only contact I have with fundamentalists as they are relatively rare in Canada, or at least not as vocal as in the USA. I think many of the more religious conservative people I know would cringe at some of the fundamentalists viewpoints on this forum.
I'd be OK if you'd just stay out of our schools. I'd agree to Gideon bibles in motel rooms if you'd get out of our science books and classrooms. Shoot, y'all agree to drop the anti-gay BS and I'd agree to a manger scene on the White House lawn.
I went to public schools K through 12 with no beginning prayers or required religion classes or chapel services … So your argument is not with ME …
I have my first degree in biology and have done some grad study in paleontology and have been a member of the biology section of the American Association for the Advancement of Science for 40+ years … So if you want to start a science-based p*ssing contest here, you won't win that one …
I actively campaigned AGAINST the attempt here in Minnesota to ban GLBT marriage in 2012 and I applaud our legislature and governor for having approved GLBT marriage in 2013 …
You gripe is with a straw man of your own imagination, not with me ...
True and I almost totally agree with you. I think many of those against the Bibles going into the government owned motels have aleady stated that it was not a big deal to them. The debate, if one can call it that, is whether the law allows or does not allow the Bibles in a government owned motel. Or if there is any cost at all involved to the taxpayers.
In my world this is the only contact I have with fundamentalists as they are relatively rare in Canada, or at least not as vocal as in the USA. I think many of the more religious conservative people I know would cringe at some of the fundamentalists viewpoints on this forum.
I am a person of faith who cringes at all "Fundamental-ism," including that of the "New Atheist" bunch …
But, yes, there are *dicey* edgy questions, including e.g., guv'mint funded chaplains in guv'mint institutions … But the SCOTUS has found them permissible under our Constitution, along with having prayer at the beginning of sessions of congress and legislatures …
"Lighten up …" is a good rule for getting along in a Liberal Democracy, but the "Fundamental-ists" of many stripes can't seem to go there … This is true for the "Creationists" and also the "New Atheists," the Vegans and the NRA gun nuts, et al. ...
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