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I never said they had to keep quiet. I said they don't PUSH their beliefs on others, not that they never talk about them. There are a few people I work with who I have regular conversations with about faith and similar things. They aren't trying to convert me or push their beliefs down my throat. In the same vein, I am not doing that to them either.
Yes … I agree …
"Atheists" in society are not a problem (for me) …
I do have a problem with the obnoxious zealot missionary "New Atheists" who try to "push their beliefs down my throat" ...
That would certainly be allowed as per The First Amendment … but the Motel 6 chain owners would have no obligation to accept them, just as they have no obligation to accept "Gideon Bibles," either …
And of course, "Motel 6" is NOT a government institution or agency … So ...
All businesses are government institutions. Didn't you know that cake bakers and photographers are required to participate in gay ceremonies since they are licensed to do business by the government.
By that logic, a sign placed as a memorial would also be littering.
Right well since you decided to pepper your posts with mod removed insults, and messed up the quote function to make it look like you were replying to me in places you were replying to others, I will be brief.
As I said in my post I was discussing mainly Ireland. I do not know the individual litter laws in individual US states but my point remains despite your pedantry, that leaving bibles behind on benches is more relevant to a discussion on litter laws than it is to a discussion on secularism in government.
Yes I think many signs placed as memorials are litter. That is to say, signs that do not go through the proper application procedures for erecting things in a public place. There is a disparity, as I said, in the litter laws in some locations like Ireland and the UK. Where, for example, throwing wood and nails onto the side of the road is prosecuted, but hammering them into the shape of a cross and embedding them in the ground is not.
My championing of the acknowledgment of God by government has nothing to do with any specific religion.
That doesn't matter, even though you desperately want it to. You've beat that horse to death already and so there is nothing left to plumb there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teilhard
So you agree with Prof. Dr. Ruse (and me)...
No. Ice cream has no bones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow667
All businesses are government institutions.
False.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow667
Didn't you know that cake bakers and photographers are required to participate in gay ceremonies
False.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow667
since they are licensed to do business by the government.
Offering a public accommodation simply means you have to offer your products and services to all equally without discrimination. It does not require you to participate in anything other than the normal operations of your business, selling your products and services.
"Atheists" in society are not a problem (for me) …
I do have a problem with the obnoxious zealot missionary "New Atheists" who try to "push their beliefs down my throat" ...
Yes, I have no problems with people of any religions, or non religion. It is when those people try to force something upon me which is not welcome that I start having a problem. This goes for the religious, as well as atheists.
It would also depend on a person's definition of "pushing their beliefs". If you mean trying to get laws passed or deny rights or proselytize at work or something of that nature, I am with you. If, OTOH, you mean anything that goes against what you believe, or trying to make sure the government stays out of the religion business, we would not be in agreement.
All businesses are government institutions. Didn't you know that cake bakers and photographers are required to participate in gay ceremonies since they are licensed to do business by the government.
LOL ...
Businesses operate in society, so are governed by laws …
The Supreme Law of the land is the Constitution …
But, no … A "business" is not a "governmental institution" ...
"Atheists" in society are not a problem (for me) …
I do have a problem with the obnoxious zealot missionary "New Atheists" who try to "push their beliefs down my throat" ...
Of course you do. We would be fools if we didn't realize how unpleasant this all is for you believers. But you needn't worry. Nobody is pushing atheism down anyone's throat. It is simply an increasing requirement that the USA practice the constitutional principle of separation of church and state and stop the organized religions pushing their beliefs down the throats of society, and we atheists will go on suggesting to the rest that they don't have to put up with the religions pushing their beliefs down their throats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
Yes, I have no problems with people of any religions, or non religion. It is when those people try to force something upon me which is not welcome that I start having a problem. This goes for the religious, as well as atheists.
It would also depend on a person's definition of "pushing their beliefs". If you mean trying to get laws passed or deny rights or proselytize at work or something of that nature, I am with you. If, OTOH, you mean anything that goes against what you believe, or trying to make sure the government stays out of the religion business, we would not be in agreement.
Yes. I note the ongoing rumbles of discontent with "New Atheism", which is just like the Old except it can no longer be dismissed as a tiny minority with no voice.
I reckon you got it right in seeing the difference between being vocal and evangelical, even. Yes, we are that - and the religion objections to "anything that goes against what you believe, or trying to make sure the government stays out of the religion business ". And, if you can see the difference, I reckon you are not against us, even if you are not with us.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-03-2015 at 05:43 AM..
Oh … The chief spokesmen for the "New Atheist" movement certainly DO "attack God" …
Who cares? Are they here in this thread? I don't see them posting.
A neutral observer would wonder why you seem intent on discussing stuff no one in the conversation has said rather than actually engaging in a conversation here.
Right well since you decided to pepper your posts with mod removed insults, and messed up the quote function to make it look like you were replying to me in places you were replying to others, I will be brief.
As I said in my post I was discussing mainly Ireland. I do not know the individual litter laws in individual US states but my point remains despite your pedantry, that leaving bibles behind on benches is more relevant to a discussion on litter laws than it is to a discussion on secularism in government.
Yes I think many signs placed as memorials are litter. That is to say, signs that do not go through the proper application procedures for erecting things in a public place. There is a disparity, as I said, in the litter laws in some locations like Ireland and the UK. Where, for example, throwing wood and nails onto the side of the road is prosecuted, but hammering them into the shape of a cross and embedding them in the ground is not.
You really don't get it?
If you dump a pile of metal and fiberboard along the roadside...it is littering, and you'll get busted. But if the metal is in the form of frames and the fiberboard is signs that have, say, the name of a political candidate that is running for office, and you erect it...it is placing a sign, and they will leave you alone.
See...one is GARBAGE, the other is not. They bust you for improperly disposing of trash...but not for putting up signs and memorials. Books left on benches wouldn't be considered improperly disposed refuse by anyone except the most ignorant and/or miserable.That you think it is relevant to litter is informative.
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