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Christianity is a tool used to control the masses at all costs.
I really don't see this, you mean in laws?
But what laws?
I mean I used to get really angry at the public school because they involved my kid in their Christian holiday but that's something we all have to live with because majority rules and it's not as though they force anyone to do anything.
Still made me mad but it really isn't control, what do Christians do that controls others?
Clearly without whining, rancor , or other nonsense , just you . It seems beyond the others to answer simply and honestly . I'm not sure what is so scary about the questions . I have no trouble admitting that I can grasp theists choosing to believe .
You are one of a kind, I guess
What's your secret ?
No secret. Just live and let live. I don't grasp how a theist can't accept an atheist view, especially the sin part. Personally I don't put much stock in man contrived sin past the golden rule aspect (yeah murder and rape and all that definitely are. But the moral stuff people use and different verses, not so much).
Sorry your thread was overrun. Maybe the mod intervention will help.
Believe me when I say that this kind of word wrangling can really grind the gears of many an atheist who, despite telling and retelling the reasons for their disbelief, are accused of some petty, sophomoric reason for not thumping that Bible right alongside the theists.
people can be petty. Are you claiming that there is some large group of people that doesn't have petty people in them?
My only claim is, for this "understanding lack of belief" thread is:
So after 18 pages of wrangling it seems the answer is..no, theists do not seem to be able to wrap their cranial stodge around atheist disbelief in the god -claim and will do anything to avoid their brain Glomming..is that the right word? I think it's the right word...Glomming our disbelief, because it might make too much sense.
Not that it would convince them to disbelieve, of course, but it would entail accepting that there was a valid reason for disbelief. And, as we know, Faith is a VERY important component of the theist mindset. Evidence is only secondary: to validate the Faith after the fact (1).
The Faith has to be unassailable because as soon as Faith...let me put this the right way...as soon as Faith is required to stand upon valid (empirical and rational) grounds, it loses its' only protection against crumbling under scrutiny. And as I have argued, the personal feelings of self righteousness of the Faithful is in danger of, or is seen (perhaps without realizing it) as in danger of, collapse.
This is why I consider that religious Faith regards,on an individual believer and religious organizational level, Doubt as the only unforgivable sin. And understanding why atheists disbelieve the God -claim is the first step into Doubt, question, attempts to prove and collapse of, the faith.
No wonder they treat us as they do.
(1) which is why it is ok to fiddle, misquote, misrepresent and lie to make the evidence fit, and even crap evidence is still "Evidence" because its' only purpose is NOT to find out the facts, but to support the Faith.
lamo, flat out wrong.
The only rational conclusion is that some do and some don't. As much as you want it to be "we are better". we are not.
Ah, the ole "I don't care about your context because if I did it would undermine my point" cop out.
It's not a cop-out. In this thread what I've been criticizing has made all the tangents you may wish to pursue moot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
The point is, I don't see what you claim to see.
I'm okay with that. We disagree. Reasonable people can disagree. I'm sure you can receive that message and say, "Oh okay, I guess we disagree," and leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Maybe I'm splitting hairs. I'll drop it.
It is a legitimate perspective to say that everything is an illusion, even the objective evidence to which scientists hang their hats.
We'll have to end it there. I'll be gone for a week.
Well, if you're looking for poll type questions and answers with no thought or depth, Sodahead is a good forum for that.
Just plain, simple, binary answers.
She's back!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
lamo, flat out wrong.
The only rational conclusion is that some do and some don't. As much as you want it to be "we are better". we are not.
Most do. It is the rationale.It is the mechanism. I could be wrong of course, but you will have to do more to persuade me than just say I am wrong. And it isn't a question of 'better'. Except that you have the right way to arrive at conclusions, and the wrong way; and the right way is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
I...
It is a legitimate perspective to say that everything is an illusion, even the objective evidence to which scientists hang their hats.
We'll have to end it there. I'll be gone for a week.
Have a nice time. It does seem that everything is an illusion, but it is a predictable one, in the way it behaves. And that is effective as reality as if it was made of solid lumps. And that s why science can hang their hats on it and we can hang our hats on science. And those who hang their hats anywhere else can search for them on the floor.
Fundamentalist Christians try to control nonbelievers by telling them they are sinful, and threaten that they will burn in hell if they don't repent. I find that behavior obnoxious and obtrusive, and an attempt to control others. Fundamentalist Christians used their religious beliefs to try to block SSM for all denominations, not just Christians. Fundamental Christians tried to replace the teaching of evolution with creationism in some Southern school districts.
On the plus side, Modern day Christians are no longer accusing women of being witches and burning them at the stake, as a left-handed woman, I'm grateful for that.
That's just opinion Eliza, in what way has it changed you?
I mean those fundamentalist have their opinion like anyone else but they really aren't controlling anyone and if they are just believing something that not everyone believes, it's just their beliefs and if they aren't out their hurting anyone, this is America and praise God we have so many different type of people who can freely believe how they want to believe as long as it isn't hurting anyone.
Now there is a very small minority of idiots like Westboro but there are idiots in every kind of religion, and groups. I could show idiots in the gay community, idiots in the kkk community, idiots from all sort of different groups and thank God a person can be an idiot without going to jail.
What gets taught in school is an outrage to me also, but that isn't control because it is really up to the parent to do whatever they seem fit to do and this even means they can homeschool like I was tempted to do because I got angry that the school kept pushing Christianity on my child so I picked my child up during Christian holidays, they were not controlling my child and my child knows just what I taught him.
It hasn't changed me per se, but it has made me more aware of how some groups use religious beliefs to promote an agenda that is hurtful to others.
Yes, there are idiots in every group, but are you going to tell me the Family Research Council, a Conservative Christian lobbying group, and other similar groups are not trying to control or hurt anyone? Their form of "Christianity" does nothing to promote unity. Their main goal is to lobby against the civil rights of homosexuals. When Christian nonprofits like this outfit, lobby the government for change they are certainly trying to gain control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Research_Council
I remember when that dude told all of his followers to call some place and they did, and they shut the phone lines down till they begged for those Christians to stop calling and this was an outrage because Christians shouldn't act like that, and still it was an isolated event and most Christians don't think like that anymore, this was years ago.
There is always opponents against every bill and every Law, but that is what is so great about America, you can change laws and you can change the hearts of people I mean, look how far we have come from the 1950s. How they would have treated a gay person then would have been done to that gay person and it wouldn't even make the news, and you try and treat a gay person like that now, and a multitude of people probably mostly Christians would jump on their backs in defense of that gay person.
I don't know Eliza, it is as if many people are using a microscope that looks back 60 years as if it was the same now when it is not the same now but I see this in so many ways all the time. Not only with gay people, but black people as well. I used to come up on blacks everyday, all the time and as far as race relations came from the 50's, we have went backwards 4 steps.
Where I would stand in an elevator with a black man and say, hey wassup, and shake his hand, I see cutting eyes{not all of them but much has changed for the worse} now as If I had committed some great evil. If I say that homosexuality is a sin, I am labeled a monster lol, it is already assumed that I think I am better or that I think a gay person is evil and that's not what I think.
The majority of Christians are really not those Westboro type of hateful people at all, and when it comes down to it, if just one person says that aren't gay, I am going to assume them uneducated or a liar because even if a Christian doesn't touch another person, he is already guilty in his imaginations.{Besides this, physical adultery points to spiritual adultery. Physical fornication and physical homosexuality points to the spiritual as well/ The spirit is male and the body female. When you live by your own strong will in trying to be a king, it is two men in a bed}
There seems to be a mentality that Christians want a theology set in place where people are killed for the transgressions of the laws of Moses, but I can't think of a single Christian who would want that.
I think anyone can clearly see that the laws of this nation are going to lean in the favor of Gays, who could not see that?
If this is true, then the perception a lot of gay people have toward the Christian majority must certainly be wrong.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-21-2016 at 02:13 PM..
It's not a cop-out. In this thread what I've been criticizing has made all the tangents you may wish to pursue moot.
I'm okay with that. We disagree. Reasonable people can disagree. I'm sure you can receive that message and say, "Oh okay, I guess we disagree," and leave it at that.
I am willing to accept that we disagree, yes. I do have a question though... Why the dodging?
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