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Not sure what the utility is of replying to me sequentially in a number of posts, but I will amalgamate them all into one if it is all the same to you (and indeed, even if it is not).
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
And as I stated earlier, you asked, I answered, you don't like my answer.
Because the reality is you did not answer ANY of the questions I actually asked. You moved instead to answer questions I never asked. So while it is pedantically true to say "you answered", what you most certainly did not do is answer anything actually asked of you.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
So back to your snide side commentary making implications about the sanity of others. Remember this next time you presume to admonish others (usually as a deflection attempt from things you want to dodge) on this forum for their tone, or the level of respect they show others.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Again this boils down to what a person defines as valid data.
Again this boils down to you not offering ANY data, and deflecting from that fact by diatribes ABOUT data. You are using a shift into meta discourse about the discourse as one in your plethora of dodge techniques from dealing with anything in a substantive way.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
For many people there is abundant data that validates the afterlife and before life and the soul's journey and interaction with the physical body.
Yet while talking ABOUT this "abundant" data you have presented, quite literally, NONE of it for consideration or discussion or scrutiny. You can go on (and on and on it seems) about people accepting or not accepting data. But the simple fact is that until you PRESENT any, there is nothing FOR them to accept.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Attitudes come across loud and clear, even online.
Yea such as your "If you do not see it my way, you should seek professional help" attitude. That DOES come out loud and clear. And it speaks VOLUMES both about you and the standard of substantiation you have for your fantastically nonsense after life narratives.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
Everything under discussion of this topic is views or beliefs. Not facts. Not truth or lies. Just views.
Speak for yourself, you are not speaking for me. I have discussed and presented facts. For example we have many facts and data on the workings of human consciousness. The data set there is not complete, but it is not small. And not just some but ALL of that data set points away from any notion of an after life.
The best you can do in response to that WOULD be to point out that our knowledge is incomplete and some future data might change the playing field. And you would get 100% agreement from me on that.
But the fact NOW is that 100% of the data set suggests no after life and 0% of it suggests and credibility for the expectation there is one.
So YOU may be dealing in beliefs and views........ but that is you. I am dealing in commenting purely and solely on what the current data set indicates. What YOUR data set is, or may be, you have been consistently loathe to illuminate, shifting instead into tangential discussions about tone and attitude at best..... and direct insults and implications about peoples mental health at worst.
Not really. You have nothing to back up your claim of no afterlife.
You mean, aside from physics?
We should toss out everything we have learned about 'The Way Things Work' in favor of a totally unsubstantiated claim that some unknowable and immeasurable 'something' survives and exists in a cohesive fashion after body and brain become defunct?
That idea is laughable, and in this day and age, patently ridiculous- meaning truly deserving of ridicule.
There is absolutely no reason to believe it. None. At. All.
You might as well say that there is no way to back up the claim that there is no Santa Claus, or elves, or fairies, or leprechauns, or any of the other things there ain't none of (joke there, for those that get it). It is foolishness of the highest order.
Such nonsense is wishful thinking at best, or an attempt to keep the human race bound to stone-age ignorance because some people are too scared to let go of their blankey...or have a vested interest in the money and power that can be obtained from promulgating such ignorance.
We should toss out everything we have learned about 'The Way Things Work' in favor of a totally unsubstantiated claim that some unknowable and immeasurable 'something' survives and exists in a cohesive fashion after body and brain become defunct?
That idea is laughable, and in this day and age, patently ridiculous- meaning truly deserving of ridicule.
There is absolutely no reason to believe it. None. At. All.
You might as well say that there is no way to back up the claim that there is no Santa Claus, or elves, or fairies, or leprechauns, or any of the other things there ain't none of (joke there, for those that get it). It is foolishness of the highest order.
Such nonsense is wishful thinking at best, or an attempt to keep the human race bound to stone-age ignorance because some people are too scared to let go of their blankey...or have a vested interest in the money and power that can be obtained from promulgating such ignorance.
We are humans. We don't know everything. We certainly don't know what happens after we die and we don't even know everything about life.
Therefore there is "absolutely" a reason to believe in an afterlife. Or you can choose to not believe. It's up to you.
Also, for some, it's not nonsense or wishful thinking. It is beliefs and faith. Some have it and some don't.
We are humans. We don't know everything. We certainly don't know what happens after we die and we don't even know everything about life.
Okay, I'll ask this again:
What do you think happened to the more than one-hundred thousand million humans who have already died? Where are they all now? Why can't we see any of them living their afterlives?
What does this evidence suggest if we think through this rationally?
We are humans. We don't know everything...Therefore there is "absolutely" a reason to believe in an afterlife.
No, ignorance is not a reason for believing a thing to be true when there is, in fact, no evidence that such thing is true.
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Also, for some, it's not nonsense or wishful thinking. It is beliefs and faith.
Lacking evidence, 'beliefs and faith' are indeed nothing more than wishful thinking.
"We don't know everything" does not equate to "so what I want to be true must be true."
[Some] Ignorant people once believed that the stars were pasted in place above the Earth, and rotated around it. They had 'faith' that this was so. But it was not, and no amount of wishful thinking, or faith, or belief, will make it so.
We are humans. We don't know everything. We certainly don't know what happens after we die and we don't even know everything about life.
Therefore there is "absolutely" a reason to believe in an afterlife. Or you can choose to not believe. It's up to you.
Also, for some, it's not nonsense or wishful thinking. It is beliefs and faith. Some have it and some don't.
"We can't know that leprechauns don't live at the end of rainbows on Venus, therefore there is absolutely a reason to believe in Venusian leprechauns."
No, ignorance is not a reason for believing a thing to be true when there is, in fact, no evidence that such thing is true.
Lacking evidence, 'beliefs and faith' are indeed nothing more than wishful thinking.
"We don't know everything" does not equate to "so what I want to be true must be true."
[Some] Ignorant people once believed that the stars were pasted in place above the Earth, and rotated around it. They had 'faith' that this was so. But it was not, and no amount of wishful thinking, or faith, or belief, will make it so.
Reasonable inferences can be drawn from what we do know.
It's hard to get around the logic that humans can't think without a functioning cerebrum.
When you die your cerebrum no longer functions.
Therefore, after you die you should no longer have conscious thoughts.
Is it possible that some other new method of thinking suddenly pops up after death, and that method doesn't require a brain? I guess, but that seems like wishful thinking.
We all have a survival instinct that fights to find any chance that we may continue on consciously into infinity. But nothing we know about the way our conscious mind works suggest that is the case. To the best of our knowledge, the brain is a necessary for us to be conscious, so death logically infers the end of conscious thoughts.
Reasonable inferences can be drawn from what we do know.
It's hard to get around the logic that humans can't think without a functioning cerebrum.
When you die your cerebrum no longer functions.
Therefore, after you die you should no longer have conscious thoughts.
A lack of precision in thinking can be quite misleading, Box. A lack of a functioning brain merely prevents experiencing consciousness in a physical body. What we DO know about our consciousness is that what we experience is a "delayed replay" of the consciousness that we actually produce. IOW, we do not directly experience our own consciousness in real time. At best, we can declare that any "replay" is ended with the death of the body and brain.
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Is it possible that some other new method of thinking suddenly pops up after death, and that method doesn't require a brain? I guess, but that seems like wishful thinking.
The entity that is actually doing the thinking and feeling exists at a different level of being than we do. We just experience its creation after-the-fact giving us the impression that we are doing the thinking and feeling.
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We all have a survival instinct that fights to find any chance that we may continue on consciously into infinity. But nothing we know about the way our conscious mind works suggest that is the case. To the best of our knowledge, the brain is a necessary for us to be conscious, so death logically infers the end of conscious thoughts.
Again, death eliminates our ability to experience conscious thoughts at this level of being. It does nothing to the entity that has already been made conscious and thinking.
A lack of precision in thinking can be quite misleading, Box. A lack of a functioning brain merely prevents experiencing consciousness in a physical body. What we DO know about our consciousness is that what we experience is a "delayed replay" of the consciousness that we actually produce. IOW, we do not directly experience our own consciousness in real time. At best, we can declare that any "replay" is ended with the death of the body and brain.
The entity that is actually doing the thinking and feeling exists at a different level of being than we do. We just experience its creation after-the-fact giving us the impression that we are doing the thinking and feeling.
Again, death eliminates our ability to experience conscious thoughts at this level of being. It does nothing to the entity that has already been made conscious and thinking.
Even if the above were true, you are making the case that the brain isn't sufficient to create thought. But do you doubt that a brain is necessary to create conscious thought?
Because that is the question here - "is creating new human thoughts contingent on a functioning brain?"
We know that brain damage effects sapience. Memories, inner dialogue, attitude, emotion, etc. Each of those can be destroyed by destroying a corresponding area of the brain. That suggest that a functioning brain is a necessary, even if not sufficient, for consciousness.
And because death destroys all of those parts of the brain, none of those function should be able survive the death of the brain.
What do you think happened to the more than one-hundred thousand million humans who have already died? Where are they all now? Why can't we see any of them living their afterlives?
What does this evidence suggest if we think through this rationally?
From my beliefs, the more than one-hundred thousand millions humans who have already crossed over (the soul doesn't die; only the body does) are in the afterlife, in another dimension which is why we can't see them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati
"We can't know that leprechauns don't live at the end of rainbows on Venus, therefore there is absolutely a reason to believe in Venusian leprechauns."
That's your -- ahem, 'logic' -- applied.
A very illogical post.
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