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The elephant in the forum is that most of the anger revolves around views about sex. It's "the for it crowd" vs. "the not for it crowds" 24/7. It's very predictable, but I've grown to enjoy the rubber stamp posts with always the same conclusions/summations.
No, I don't agree. Sexuality and attitudes towards it serve as a shibboleth to be sure, but the core issue is how do you determine what is true -- about sex or anything? Sex just gets tossed in as a diversionary tactic: "if unbelievers are right, then all manner of degrading and horrible raping, pillaging, and deviant behavior will become the norm, especially anal sex". It attempts to get people repulsed by unbelief based on alleged consequences. And it's not just sex, it's totalitarianism, nihilism, hatred of god, the Bible or Christians, stubbornness, any number of other bogeymen they try to associate with unbelief, or for that matter, any number of positives they claim to be responsible for and the sole protectors of, like love, freedom, Mom, apple pie.
But what it's all trying to avoid is ever looking at a valid methodology for actually demonstrating truth. They want to use their failed methodology which is to declare by fiat what is true (through the scriptures, church tradition or dogma, or simply some ad hoc personal subjective interpretation of those things) and then ignore anything that contradicts or challenges it.
The emphasis on sex simply reflects that if you can get people to cede some significant aspect of who and what they are to groupthink, then you pretty much own them. I don't see fundamentalists as inherently riven with prurient interest, I see them as wanting a fulcrum of control, and sex is a very good one. Of course if you're repressed around something your whole life, prurient interest creeps in to, but it's an effect, not a cause.
.....They want to use their failed methodology ....
Except it is not a failed methodology.
Many people are very successful usimg religion, and find religion a successful framework for living life and being in relationship with the Creator.
If I fail calculus courses or fail to sing opera as a soprano or fail to learn how to repair heavy equipment used in copper mining, I don't say those are failed methodologies. I say i failed at them. Other people are very successful at them.
I also don't claim they have no value and seek to remove them from the world, since I failed at them. I don't say let's remove all copper mining, calculus, and opera from the world.
The person fails to grasp or understand or have expertise in a given area.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-11-2016 at 08:14 AM..
...and yet I would wager that every atheist on this board is open to the possibility that they might be wrong and, I'd say, just about every atheist on the planet, would accept, if they were given verifiable evidence for it, the existence of gods.
Honestly? I haven't seen it. I have yet to see those same atheists come to grip with the idea that there is no natural explanation for the existence of the universe. I get called dumb and insulted in other ways.
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How many theists do you know who would accept that they are wrong in their god belief and would accept that their deity does not exist? How much 'open-mindedness' do we see from Christians when they are presented with the mountain of verifiable evidence of evolution?
If you can prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead I'll renounce Christianity on the spot.
I have yet to see those same atheists come to grip with the idea that there is no natural explanation for the existence of the universe.
Including your explanation.
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I get called dumb and insulted in other ways.
Do you really expect not to be with what you say about homosexuals and same-sex marriage?
Do you really expect not to be when you claim that that macro-evolution just isn't possible and then run and hide from and refuse to address the example I gave you?
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If you can prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead I'll renounce Christianity on the spot.
If you can prove that he did I'll renounce atheism on the spot.
I'm a Bible believing follower of Christ. (label me as you'd like)
I have to agree with you completely and I tell you why. Those people are NOT secure in their faith. They know what they believe, and they may be right on track, but they can't defend WHY they believe it. It's really important to be educated on the reason for one's own faith. We have to be prepared to defend our beliefs with kindness and humility.
So, if you back them up against the wall, they lash out like a feral animal. Which impresses no one except the nay-sayers. Why would I treat anyone with disrespect when there's no one on Earth God loves more than He loves that person who is antagonizing me? "Death to self" is a concept that's really difficult to put into practice (I guess for some people) and it certainly goes against the self-centeredness of our society.
Anyway, humans have to rise above their "natural" way of thinking and.... what was the question again?
I'm a Bible believing follower of Christ. (label me as you'd like)
I have to agree with you completely and I tell you why. Those people are NOT secure in their faith. They know what they believe, and they may be right on track, but they can't defend WHY they believe it. It's really important to be educated on the reason for one's own faith. We have to be prepared to defend our beliefs with kindness and humility.
So, if you back them up against the wall, they lash out like a feral animal. Which impresses no one except the nay-sayers. Why would I treat anyone with disrespect when there's no one on Earth God loves more than He loves that person who is antagonizing me? "Death to self" is a concept that's really difficult to put into practice (I guess for some people) and it certainly goes against the self-centeredness of our society.
Who are you addressing??
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Anyway, humans have to rise above their "natural" way of thinking and.... what was the question again?
"Nothing I accept about myself can be used against me to diminish me."
---Audre Lorde
I love that!
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Regarding other religions, and atheists too, mostly they seek to proselytize and advertise and evangelize and tell why their brand is better.
No religion owns God or has exclusive access to God. God does not limit Himself in that way. We are all beloved children of the Creator.
You are absolutely right.
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Very few people on the religion boards have a sincere interest in learning something new. However they do like to discuss topics that interest them.
I didn't come here to learn, but I'm definitely open to learning. I have learned about a lot of different religions since coming here, and it's been worthwhile.
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A person never has to justify, defend, explain, prove, or rationalize anything about their life to anyone. That is being secure. Respond to insult with silence. That is being secure.
You know the hardest thing about responding with silence (which is what I try to do when things get out of hand). Inevitably, the person trying to prolong the discussion will say, "Sure. Run away. You can't defend your beliefs so you're going to bail." Most of the time, it's just that I'm tired of arguing. When the argument is doing nothing more than going around in circles, it's time for someone to call it quits. And if I'm the one who does, that doesn't necessarily mean I can't defend my beliefs. It just means I've figured out that I'm wasting my time. But the taunting can make it difficult. As you said, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Thanks for reminding me of that.
I
... Inevitably, the person trying to prolong the discussion will say, "Sure. Run away. You can't defend your beliefs so you're going to bail." Most of the time, it's just that I'm tired of arguing. When the argument is doing nothing more than going around in circles, it's time for someone to call it quits. And if I'm the one who does, that doesn't necessarily mean I can't defend my beliefs. It just means I've figured out that I'm wasting my time. But the taunting can make it difficult. .
This is a good topic and i'm glad you opened the thread.
Someone told me this and I like it. If someone is trying to give me a gift, a shiny wrapped package, and I don't take it from their hands, what happens to the gift?
Well, it stays in their hands. It belongs to them. It is theirs. They have the gift and they keep it. It is in their hands, their world, their life, their heart. That is where it originated. That is where it remains. And that is where it acts and has an effect. Whether it is a bouquet of flowers or a heap of excrement, whether it is a diamond or a grenade.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-11-2016 at 09:12 AM..
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