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Old 05-19-2017, 09:44 AM
 
4,450 posts, read 1,679,772 times
Reputation: 1551

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
This has become a discussion on proving a god of some kind rather than a particular Holy Book. But the argument from pretty patterns is a false one. The cabbage (you could have done the same with a Chrysanthymum or Nautilus shell) is simple. DNA instructions repeat the same pattern one after the other in the next space. The process is perfectly natural. The result appeals to our liking for regularity and surprises us with visual regularity in a world where things aren't as regular as that. It doesn't mean it was designed, in fact we know it wasn't.
In which case, you should be able to toss the bucket of stones in the air and it should land on the concrete forming the spelling of your name. Or at least form a shape of a circle or a square or a triangle?

We know that an uncontrolled explosion results only in chaos. The bucket experiment proves it.

How can the explosion of a big bang resulted in such a design of the universe, if big bang was an uncontrolled explosion?

Obviously, being an Atheist, it would be illogical for you to assume that big bang was actually a controlled explosion.


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The coincidental similarity of the spiral in a galaxy is also caused by known physical actions. You can look the explanation up. None of that is any evidence of design.
Again, a believer looks for signs of God when he is out to search for one, not the evidence.


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Now you may shift the goalposts and ask who made the laws of physics or created the instructions of DNA.

That takes a bit more explaining and we ought to avoid science discussions. But it is explainable in terms of chemical evolution.
OK we won't go there.

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It doesn't require us to say that 'Only a god could have caused that'. Never mind which god, or religion or Holy Book.
Obviously, you are not "required" or being forced to say it was done by God of some certain religion. You have used your logic and intelligence, and you have arrived at your conclusion. There is no compulsion on you or me if we have arrived at two different conclusions. You stick with yours and I will stick with mine.

Quote:
Perhaps I could address your over-complicated analogy. You could say you threw a handful of stones several times and they formed the same pattern each time. Wow. In fact on a level table -top that won't happen. We know.
If you know that this won't happen then how do you know the spiral design was formed on it's own. The galaxies did not take any instructions from any DNA, did they?

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But then you take -say -a hub cap raised in the middle (physical forces or DNA instructions) Now they will form roughly the same pattern, every time.
so you do agree with Einstein that there is a "force" out there?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Baseless claim, unless you can show me how the Koran has just as much fulfilled prophecy, Islam has just as many testimonies of supernatural encounters and miracle healings. There is even a worldwide annual conference of Christian doctors who meet to share their experiences with miracle healing and documented proof of such things. Does Islam have an equivalent?

It is more irrational to believe that we gave from a pile of goop, humans are nothing much bags of cells, and things like love are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain.
Jesus is more mentioned in the coran than mohamad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran#...her_literature

How do you deal with that? Convert? After all, if you truly follow the guy, you'd have to consider it, no?

(No need to comment on your humans made of goo inepcy)
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post

So, whether there is God and afterlife or not? We shall know it one way or the other.
Well no. Because in my (atheist) view, you won't know anything since you'll (and I also) be dead.

Nice way to offer compromise though, but you still seem to not comprehend how atheists view the world. There is NO after. Period.

I understand it's frightening for some of you. But it shouldn't. Living as such brings GREAT pleasures rather than living in fear waiting for "awards" in a next life that doesn't exist. That's why it is so important to live life NOW.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
I think Jeff has me on ignore. Or dunks anytime I post.

Anyway, that wasn't dedicated to make him change his mind, at all.

It was more directed to people lurking, and they are a huge numbers of them. As I used to be. And still am most of the time.

EDA : I stand corrected, wasn't on ignore. He probably didn't want to answer.

Last edited by personne; 05-19-2017 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:56 AM
 
8,762 posts, read 3,902,121 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post
Jesus is more mentioned in the coran than mohamad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran#...her_literature

How do you deal with that? Convert? After all, if you truly follow the guy, you'd have to consider it, no?

(No need to comment on your humans made of goo inepcy)

I don't get where you think I must become Muslim because another text mentions Jesus. It is the weight of truth and evidence that matters, and that weight heavily favors Christianity over all over religions.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
There is physical evidence all around you. And that is the beauty of the creation. Just look at how many variations there are of the human face. Probably thousands. Yet every other animal species all pretty much look exactly like their kind. Give me a room of chimps and they all pretty much look the same. Same hair, same nose, same lips etc...

Until science can create life from non-life then atheists live by even more faith.


That's EXACTLY what humans used (and still do) to think about each other.

Well, all negroes look alike, these chinks too.

They are very different. Please, educate yourself.


And as for science creating life from non life, it already exists! Look up stem research. Unless you think a cell is life of course.

Last edited by personne; 05-19-2017 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I don't get where you think I must become Muslim because another text mentions Jesus. It is the weight of truth and evidence that matters, and that weight heavily favors Christianity over all over religions.
Maybe.

It still doesn't weigh in with rationality.

You're still in a "war" between religions. I'm saying ALL is b**** crap.

I just believe in one less god than you do.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:23 AM
 
4,450 posts, read 1,679,772 times
Reputation: 1551
Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post
Well no. Because in my (atheist) view, you won't know anything since you'll (and I also) be dead.

Nice way to offer compromise though, but you still seem to not comprehend how atheists view the world. There is NO after. Period.
Trust me, you don't know this. The word "know" comes from the word "Knowledge". You do have the knowledge of 2+2 = 4, you do have the knowledge that sun rises in the east and sets in the west, but you do NOT have the knowledge that there is NO after life. That's simply what you have chosen to believe based on your logic, intelligence and research. And I have no problem with it.

I would have believed you if you had been dead and came back to report this.

As stated before, we shall wait and we shall see.

Quote:
I understand it's frightening for some of you. But it shouldn't. Living as such brings GREAT pleasures rather than living in fear waiting for "awards" in a next life that doesn't exist. That's why it is so important to live life NOW.
How is living a morally conscious life based on faith, any different from driving? You try to avoid what you think is harmful and you enjoy the drive. Why do you see it as "driving in fear"?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Trust me, you don't know this. The word "know" comes from the word "Knowledge". You do have the knowledge of 2+2 = 4, you do have the knowledge that sun rises in the east and sets in the west, but you do NOT have the knowledge that there is NO after life. That's simply what you have chosen to believe based on your logic, intelligence and research. And I have no problem with it.

I would have believed you if you had been dead and came back to report this.

As stated before, we shall wait and we shall see.



How is living a morally conscious life based on faith, any different from driving? You try to avoid what you think is harmful and you enjoy the drive. Why do you see it as "driving in fear"?
I don't understand the question?

WHY would living life as I said be even remotely related to drunk driving?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Nice, France
1,097 posts, read 448,520 times
Reputation: 775
And also, contrary to some religious people, I didn't make absolute statements.

I tried to only talk about what atheists believe, or I at least. There is no group of ours.
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