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I would say that setting up an authority different from that postulated in the very "authority" that has been set up into that spurious position... lacks integrity.
I might say that, too, if I had any idea what it meant. Can you diagram that for us?
You would say that: setting up an authority ... different from that postulated in the very authority ... that has been set up into that spurious position ... lacks integrity.
I might say that, too, if I had any idea what it meant. Can you diagram that for us?
You would say that: setting up an authority ... different from that postulated in the very authority ... that has been set up into that spurious position ... lacks integrity.
No, sorry, I tried. It's gibberish.
According to scripture Jesus promised a "guide" to be with us forever. It was NOT a book. You should be aware of this fact and the dance those who hold up scripture as authority do to justify their unfaithfulness.
The simple fact is that they don't trust the promised guide and the clear descriptions of the nature of that guide. They would rather play intellectual (theological) games.
I am wondering why you have not been applying your confidence in your intellectual abilities to the questions I posed in another thread.
As a point of clarification, when you refer to Christianity Lite, what percentage of what you are grasping and understanding is missing in the Lite version given your FULL version is somewhere between 50% and 75% to begin with????
What part of your experiences, observations, studies, reflection, and intuition comports with the primitive idea of blood sacrificing innocents as scapegoats to appease a wrathful God????
I would ask you to identify the essential elements of Christianity that the Lite versions leave out since they ALL follow Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte74
I didn't see whatever previous post you are referring to. You are either misunderstanding or twisting what I said. I accept 100% of mainstream Christian theology. Obviously there are differences in what a particular doctrine might "mean" or how it might "work," but I hold no views that would not be at least some amalgamation of Eastern Orthodox and evangelical theology. What I was saying was: Even though I accept that the Bible (OT and NT) and God's incarnation in Jesus as recorded in the Bible are God's revelation to humanity, I also recognize that God is a transcendent, eternal being whose thoughts are not our thoughts and ways are not our ways. We will never fully comprehend God, but we will surely have a much fuller understanding when we are redeemed members of His eternal kingdom. At that time, I will be surprised if my current understanding of 100% of mainstream Christian theology (not 50% or 75% of mainstream Christian theology) proves to have been more than 50% or 75% correct. I'm just tossing out percentages to make a point - perhaps my understanding of 100% of mainstream Christian theology will prove to have been 91.2% correct.
Christianity Lite is talking about 50% of Christianity (or less) at this earthly level, which is quite a different matter. Christianity Lite just blithely prunes the parts of the Bible it "doesn't like," insists Jesus "never said" the things it doesn't like, and pretty thoroughly guts Christianity of its core doctrines and explanatory power. God's holiness and justice go out the window. Man's fallen state and need for repentance, redemption and regeneration go out the window. Jesus' life, death and resurrection become little more than "a wonderful example for us all of how much God loves us." God's love is divorced from His holiness and justice and becomes little more than an airy-fairy "tolerance" for everyone and everything. Christianity Lite is a counterfeit of real Christianity, an enemy of real Christianity. As I have said repeatedly, I have no problem with anyone inventing and promoting a new religion. When they call it Christianity, I have the same problem a Muslim would have if I claimed to be a Muslim who believes in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and thinks Muhammad was more than a little crazy.
As far as the sacrifices you find so distasteful, I believe that God dealt with primitive peoples in appropriately primitive ways that may strike us today as extremely primitive. The sacrificial system was intended to serve as a model for, a foreshadowing of, the sacrifice God Himself would make in Jesus. Without that model, the meaning of Jesus' death on the cross would have been much more difficult for His followers to understand. However, this could well be an area where the mainstream Christian understanding proves to be imperfect; there are, for example, a multiplicity of theories as to what the Atonement "meant" and how it "worked." The larger point is that, as a Christian, I am not free to simply declare the sacrificial system "unworthy of God as I would like to think He is" and write it out of my theology. If I am going to be a Christian, I must accept the entire package and trust that the parts that now seem puzzling or even repugnant will, in the end, prove to be worthy of the God of perfect holiness, justice and love.
At the risk of further impinging on Tzaphkiel's man-crush, I will say that I thought Transponder captured the problem perfectly when he pointed out that the proponents of Christianity Lite lack integrity.
This post and your others are far more understandable now that I know you were TVB and LBP. It will limit my attempts to engage you on the issues. It also explains your misrepresentation of what you call Christianity Lite. What you seem to be defending is a wrathful instead of a loving God incapable of forgiving without some penalty who requires belief in the right things during this finite life or suffer infinite eternal consequences after death. This is the paragon of holiness, justice, and love that you defend?????
We seem to have got off the topic (which seemed to be 'What if atheism is true and we just die and that's it?") but that's OK.
I just love it when two brands of Christians, both convinced that their own conclusions are in fact inspired revelation from God (and you can save you selves the trouble of denying it. I am as convinced of that as I am convinced the prophecy of Judas id bunk) come to blows.
When theists fall out....non-believers get their dues.
We seem to have got off the topic (which seemed to be 'What if atheism is true and we just die and that's it?") but that's OK.
I just love it when two brands of Christians, both convinced that their own conclusions are in fact inspired revelation from God (and you can save you selves the trouble of denying it. I am as convinced of that as I am convinced the prophecy of Judas id bunk) come to blows.
When theists fall out....non-believers get their dues.
True enough, but the point for me is to demonstrate that common perceptions about the nature of "Christianity" do not reflect the spectrum of perceptions within that classification, so that rants against abusive behavior of some elements do not tell the whole story and approaching the subject as if it were monolithic is misleading at best.
Oh, and of course a big part of my purpose is to correct the blatant misrepresentations of the nature of liberal thought in Christianity from whatever direction,
True enough, but the point for me is to demonstrate that common perceptions about the nature of "Christianity" do not reflect the spectrum of perceptions within that classification, so that rants against abusive behavior of some elements do not tell the whole story and approaching the subject as if it were monolithic is misleading at best.
Oh, and of course a big part of my purpose is to correct the blatant misrepresentations of the nature of liberal thought in Christianity from whatever direction,
Fair enough and I haven't followed the argument enough to get involved
Just I can comment on he basic positions -which other atheists have noted.
Bible literalists have a sort of curious integrity because they refuse to compromise- the Bible is true. All True.
Liberal Christianity of all kinds from Theistic evolution (fits churches) through to Jesus was a reforming Jewish rabbi (fits a lot of damn near atheists). While these people are much more easy for atheists to engage with, it is rather reinventing the Bible story so as not to have to give up and chuck it out.
Fair enough and I haven't followed the argument enough to get involved
Just I can comment on he basic positions -which other atheists have noted.
Bible literalists have a sort of curious integrity because they refuse to compromise- the Bible is true. All True.
Liberal Christianity of all kinds from Theistic evolution (fits churches) through to Jesus was a reforming Jewish rabbi (fits a lot of damn near atheists). While these people are much more easy for atheists to engage with, it is rather reinventing the Bible story so as not to have to give up and chuck it out.
And STILL your mind is set on using the Bible as authority rather than having elements useful in describing the nature of our relationship with God and man.
"Useful" The word Paul used to describe "all scripture." Useful to whom? How about useful to the authority or "guide" promised in those pages? Some of those writers could really turn a phrase.
And STILL your mind is set on using the Bible as authority rather than having elements useful in describing the nature of our relationship with God and man.
"Useful" The word Paul used to describe "all scripture." Useful to whom? How about useful to the authority or "guide" promised in those pages? Some of those writers could really turn a phrase.
It's this way; either the Bible is taken as an Authority -as distinct from any other book which is not an Authority, or you don't, in which case, it is no more Useful than any other book.
What this means is that the god you believe in is the God of the Bible (and perhaps Jesus - as I say -those who rewrite what the Bibte says to suit their own views can virtually write Jesus out if they want) or is not the god of the Bible in particular, and any Holy Book or indeed any book on the subject is (potentially) an equally valid Authority. Which is it?
It's you has to answer the question -Authority or not? Not me.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-27-2017 at 02:39 PM..
Fair enough and I haven't followed the argument enough to get involved
Just I can comment on he basic positions -which other atheists have noted.
Bible literalists have a sort of curious integrity because they refuse to compromise- the Bible is true. All True.
Liberal Christianity of all kinds from Theistic evolution (fits churches) through to Jesus was a reforming Jewish rabbi (fits a lot of damn near atheists). While these people are much more easy for atheists to engage with, it is rather reinventing the Bible story so as not to have to give up and chuck it out.
The literal follows select out plenty too. The one I was in was always talking about when Armageddon was coming and how Jehovah was going to make everything perfect. You know what verse i never remember being quoted?
Amos 5:18
…17"And in all the vineyards there is wailing, Because I will pass through the midst of you," says the LORD. 18Alas, you who are longing for the day of the LORD, For what purpose will the day of the LORD be to you? It will be darkness and not light; 19As when a man flees from a lion And a bear meets him, Or goes home, leans his hand against the wall And a snake bites him.…
Do you see that stopping anyone from Rapture fantasies?
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