Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I know what you mean...even I had to go all the way back to post #37, but then I was paying attention.
Well, let's concede Zhat I wasn't paying enough attention and I didn't know what Hippy-dippy meant until you explained. It still leaves the point that there is no apparent difference between your 'agape' and my 'hippy -dippy' apart from your assertion that they are not the same. Still awaiting your explanation as to what the difference is.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 05:47 AM..
Yes. 'Agape' comes across (after reading a lot of the posts) as taking an appeal or exhortation (usually taken from some Gospel or other) to love everyone. It is a sort of appeal to access some sort of faith - based and somewhat religious wellspring of divine originated love that is beyond the normal run of human thought and ability.
Now that to me is as hippy and and as dippy as you can get, and the funny hat on the top does not alter that.
You may (probably will ) say that I am not getting it - it isn't the same thing. If so, why isn't it? What am I not getting? And please don't feel for the 'not paying attention' card. You used them both. I was paying attention and my point looks (to me) a valid one. Ball now in your court.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 05:52 AM..
Actually, whether you believe in God or not, your life does matter. You are no more or less valuable to God than any person on earth.
That sounds fine, and is fine only in that it aligns with humanist thought about human equality. But in fact it starts to slip as soon as you bear in mind that some people are going to be saved and others not - according to Christian doctrine.
It's even worse when you take on board the corner that apologists painted themselves into with the idea that God knows everything; and it is inescapable - even though they would rather have their fingernails pulled out than admit it - that God knew it all before he glued together the first Higgs -Boson or blew the first bubble of quantum foam.
Worse than that - the passage of Mark that shall not be mentioned on pain of death, excommunication or being forced o listen to a CD of Haydn string quartets - the passage about God hardening the hearts of some people that he had already decided would not be ABLE to be converted. God set up their damnation to start off with.
That rather debunks the idea that God values us all equally, never mind wants us to be saved. He already decided that he wanted the great majority NOT to be saved, and worked damn' hard to make sure they wouldn't be.
P.s I just looked into the Wings and saw "not if you didn't know..." lurking there. Please do cue him to come on and make it clear that missionary work to those who Didn't know is -according o you - violating God's intentions by introducing less -favoured -status to those who didn't know and ensuring they'd be less in the eyes of God (.i.e hellfodder) if they weren't converted.
P p s Cue "No, no, it's all good, perfect, fair, and just and makes perfect sense in ways that can never make any sense o us..."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 06:01 AM..
Well, let's concede Zhat I wasn't paying enough attention and I didn't know what Hippy-dippy meant until you explained. It still leaves the point that there is no apparent difference between your 'agape' and my 'hippy -dippy' apart from your assertion that they are not the same. Still awaiting your explanation as to what the difference is.
The realization that there is no magic cure for humanity, it's going to take some hard work and dedication, but the end (a society that actually cares about ALL of its members) will be worth the trouble. The realization that the imperative to group cohesion actually IS a part of our make-up and can find full expression in spite of our innate selfishness when we realize it is in its own way....selfish.
The realization that there is no magic cure for humanity, it's going to take some hard work and dedication, but the end (a society that actually cares about ALL of its members) will be worth the trouble. The realization that the imperative to group cohesion actually IS a part of our make-up and can find full expression in spite of our innate selfishness when we realize it is in its own way....selfish.
the animating force is the differences in things. So far as we can tell that is. all love means the end of us all. there would be nothing. "creative force" is an engineering force. It would understand that how humans want it to be would mean the end of everything.
"innate selfishness" is a problem for me. humans are totally defined by their surroundings. there is no "innate" anything. There is no innate selfishness.
what's a word we could use for a positive connotation for selfishness?
the animating force is the differences in things. So far as we can tell that is. all love means the end of us all. there would be nothing. "creative force" is an engineering force. It would understand that how humans want it to be would mean the end of everything.
"innate selfishness" is a problem for me. humans are totally defined by their surroundings. there is no "innate" anything. There is no innate selfishness.
what's a word we could use for a positive connotation for selfishness?
Minding our own business? An extensive global cull of prodnoses and asshats wouldn't hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
The realization that there is no magic cure for humanity, it's going to take some hard work and dedication, but the end (a society that actually cares about ALL of its members) will be worth the trouble. The realization that the imperative to group cohesion actually IS a part of our make-up and can find full expression in spite of our innate selfishness when we realize it is in its own way....selfish.
Totally agree. My concern is how to do this. I suspect that the way would be first to understand the drives that put us in competition and how we can reduce them and maximize the impulses that make us co -operate.
At school 'religion' was replaced wtih something called 'citizenship' which none of the teachers seemed to know what to do with. I don't blame them because nobody really understands this, including those who most need to know - our elected rulers (1) who think that lying, deception, fallacy, lawyer tricks and whatever is needed to get power and keep it is the right sort of thinking for those who run the country.
It is no wonder that logic, reason and understanding ourselves is a subject totally neglected in education, because those who decide the curriculum have no idea of this stuff, never mind the value of it. Indeed the urgent necessity for it if humanity is to avoid a massive train -wreck.
(1) it goes without saying that the unelected ones haven't got the slightest idea about it.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 09:42 AM..
the animating force is the differences in things. So far as we can tell that is. all love means the end of us all. there would be nothing. "creative force" is an engineering force. It would understand that how humans want it to be would mean the end of everything.
"innate selfishness" is a problem for me. humans are totally defined by their surroundings. there is no "innate" anything. There is no innate selfishness.
what's a word we could use for a positive connotation for selfishness?
Bullwhoop on the basic post. Meaningless drivel. There is always a "difference" or conflict between personal desire and group interest. As for the bolded, "enlightened self-interest."
Bullwhoop on the basic post. Meaningless drivel. There is always a "difference" or conflict between personal desire and group interest. As for the bolded, "enlightened self-interest."
no its not. The animating force, as near as we can tell, is the difference in energy potentials in any given volume of space. That's just a fact nate. sorry man. it's the standard model.
"all love" would mean there would be nothing. that, again, is just a fact. think if everything was an electron, there would be nothing. Without indifference there can be no love. again, there is nothing I can do to change that. I wish I could, but I can't. how would you?
enlighten self interest? I guess there is no single word. as soon as we put the word "self" in there people tend to freak out. oh well.
Drivel. "It's a given." What it IS is sim plistic application of physical matters to metaphysical situations: neither good physics nor good metaphysics.
Last edited by nateswift; 06-24-2017 at 02:11 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) say that I am not getting it - it isn't the same thing. If so, why isn't it? What am I not getting? And please don't feel for the 'not paying attention' card. You used them both. I was paying attention and my point looks (to me) a valid one. Ball now in your court.
