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I agree, Pleroo, but I can KNOW because I have personally experienced it many times and I am never without a constant reminder of it.
What about all the people that "know" you are wrong, because their experiences directly contradict yours? See, that's the problem, Mystic. You believe you had an experience, so therefore other people's experiences are invalid unless they match yours. There are billions of people who "know" their religion is the correct one. You can't all be right. You could all be wrong though...
Duly noted, I will re-purpose the time to some of the Parks in the region with magnificent waterfalls and visit some of the Finger lakes Wineries.
That sounds like a good idea. I love that part of New York state.
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I was referring to the Golden Plates, Seer Stones, etc. Weren't these potential artifacts used by Joseph Smith in and around his homestead, Hill Cumorah and Sacred Grove in upstate New York in the 1800's?
Again, with regards to the aforementioned artifacts, would they not be contained to the aforementioned areas of Palmyra New York?
Not necessarily.
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I don't understand, was I forming any provisions of exclusion in my posts? As far as your example of holding down the fort against great odds, you do excel at it. But also bear in mind LDS is a very young religion with a fantastical story behind it formulated by an individual who's credibility could be argued. Maybe one of the Religion's burdens are the two "F"s (fresh and fantastic) that may leave them more prone to modern day scrutiny.
Sure, I know that. Had the Joseph Smith story taken place in biblical times, a lot of people would accept it as true without a second thought. Actually, I really do get it. And to be honest, I can understand why the origins of Mormonism are hard to buy into. But for me, it's Mormonism's understanding about the gospel of Jesus Christ that draws me to it. There's so much in traditional Christianity that just doesn't make sense to me. And Mormonism answers my questions in a far clearer and rational way. I don't find I have to take the Bible literally to find worth in it; it's the same with Mormonism, just more so.
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I wasn't attempting to come up with anything new, just trying to potentially verify some of the old that once existed as earthly physical items according to the history of the Religion.
That's okay. I just get tired of repeating myself. I could probably direct you to one of the old threads in which I discuss this stuff in great length, but it would be a lot of reading for you to do.
What about all the people that "know" you are wrong, because their experiences directly contradict yours? See, that's the problem, Mystic. You believe you had an experience, so therefore other people's experiences are invalid unless they match yours. There are billions of people who "know" their religion is the correct one. You can't all be right. You could all be wrong though...
As far as many people are concerned, any belief in God is "unquestionably squirrely and beyond rational belief." Everybody draws his own line.
As you know, Mystic, my belief in God is neither negative nor fear-based. I did not grow up believing that I could end up burning in hell forever unless I believed certain things, and I've never told anybody else that's where they're headed. I know that God loves the murderer I talked to in jail last week every bit as much as He loves me. Religion should be about love and compassion, and as long as it is, it doesn't deserved to be trashed.
thats right. some people here react to the word god in the same way I do when I even hear the word gin. I had a really bad experience with gin in the 7th grade grade.
they react in one, and only one way, independent of the truth to it. some times the reaction lines up with appropriate behavior, but being appropriate isn't a requirement.
lets look logically.
we have Fundy mental theist and zealot theist. Because I am atheist and really only deal with what we do have, I am forced to list the personality types that are generally accepted by people in the business of people.
Are there atheist with the some personality types we would associate with fundy theist and religious zealots?
How would an atheist with those personality mixtures look to us as they debated a theist?
Compare what, exactly? What people "know" to be true? No, I am not in for that. I don't have a few weeks/months/years to do that. Instead, I will stick to the point of my post.
The point, is that you (in the grand sense, not "you" specifically) saying that you "know" something to be true, means absolutely nothing as to whether it is or is not true. Mystic may "know" that he saw or experienced something, but there are people who "know" that they have seen or experienced something in direct contradiction of Mystic. There are people who "know" they have been abducted by aliens, or "know" that they have seen bigfoot, or "know" that Trump is a shapeshifting lizard person. Doesn't mean it is true.
Compare what, exactly? What people "know" to be true? No, I am not in for that. I don't have a few weeks/months/years to do that. Instead, I will stick to the point of my post.
The point, is that you (in the grand sense, not "you" specifically) saying that you "know" something to be true, means absolutely nothing as to whether it is or is not true. Mystic may "know" that he saw or experienced something, but there are people who "know" that they have seen or experienced something in direct contradiction of Mystic. There are people who "know" they have been abducted by aliens, or "know" that they have seen bigfoot, or "know" that Trump is a shapeshifting lizard person. Doesn't mean it is true.
What's hard to understand about that?
totally agree. Of course we know some claims aren't valid. we know that some people will be for some claims and against others. But stating, generally that is, "some claims aren't valid no matter what a person says." doesn't prove/disprove a particular claim.
what does prove relative validity? evaluate each claim side by side. lets start looking at actual claims. I'll do mine against yours. or I look at yours and compare it to mystics. just to start. we can build a relative validity list.
I mean if we are looking for the best descriptor of the system we are in, it will work out pretty quick. If we are out to prove god or stop religion at all cost, we will get stuck in BS real quick.
Are there atheist with the some personality types we would associate with fundy theist and religious zealots?
There are absolutely such personality types. Neither belief in God nor disbelief in God has much if anything to do with it. I am actually on very good terms with the vast majority of atheists on this forum. I've never even come close to implying that any atheist here or elsewhere is a "heathen baby-eating malicious scumbag!" Nor do I have some kind of a "Make-the-evil-atheists-shut-up,-mommy! Make-them-go-away!" attitude. I see atheists as people who don't believe in God. Period. I don't see people as being "bad" or "good" based on whether they believe in God or not. It's a lot more complex than that. There are crazies on both ends of the spectrum, and most of us recognize that. In terms of personality, I see very little difference between militant atheists and zealous fundies. I have no use for either of them and neither one's occasional meltdown is worth my losing any sleep over.
There are absolutely such personality types. Neither belief in God nor disbelief in God has much if anything to do with it. I am actually on very good terms with the vast majority of atheists on this forum. I've never even come close to implying that any atheist here or elsewhere is a "heathen baby-eating malicious scumbag!" Nor do I have some kind of a "Make-the-evil-atheists-shut-up,-mommy! Make-them-go-away!" attitude. I see atheists as people who don't believe in God. Period. I don't see people as being "bad" or "good" based on whether they believe in God or not. It's a lot more complex than that. There are crazies on both ends of the spectrum, and most of us recognize that. In terms of personality, I see very little difference between militant atheists and zealous fundies. I have no use for either of them and neither one's occasional meltdown is worth my losing any sleep over.
Science has come along ways by means of exploration.
Astronomy has observed birth of stars from
gas clouds and the spewing of material debris from star bursts.
Samples have been picked off an asteroid and yielded basic
building blocks of carbon , monomer units essential to creating life.
A few thousand asteroid crashes into our planet add a little water give
it a little time ( hundreds of million years ) add a little sunshine and
bingo............. microorganisms come into being.
Add a few more years and presto .....humans!
Talk about a wonderful recipe for life.
God is the ultimate chef!
These days, a lot of believers on this forum just want to cry like spoiled children who shout, "Make the evil atheists shut up, mommy! Make them go away!"
It's pathetic.
BRAVA! It's all they have left.
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