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I've noted that before...you can't even be sure that you can't be sure.
All reality could have started 3 seconds ago from nothing at all...exactly how it is, with all our thoughts and memories how they are.
You could never really "know" it didn't...so faith is required to make a determination on that, or anything else.
Or not! You never know!
I think most of are aware of the epistemic problems associated with knowledge but there are qualitative differences.
Did you catch that post: 'the satanic shoe salesman'? Goldie excels in Rhetorical techniques for making one feel unsure about anything they thought they were sure of.
Strange, it does not work for me.
Perhaps because
1) I sometimes work with complex mathematics, including probability
2) English is not my native language, and
3) I have seen the likes of Goldie before. I have noticed they do not respond to anything I have written, not even an attempt at a refutation.
Since this is in the "Religious and SPirituality" forum, I'd prefer to go by the Biblical definition of it, which is found in Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."
We don't KNOW those things to be untrue. We just can't see them. But when one makes a habit of taking Biblical things and coming up with their own wild and crazy spin on it, I don't see it as too strange that one might call it that.
Actually your definition is just a made up as grandpa's definition.
Faith is the substance of thing(s) hope for, the evidence of thing(s) not seen.
Therefore the difference between believing and faith is that faith has a reason for what we believe, and that reason is the evidence of what we believe is true. Or as written in 1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the LORD in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
I think most of are aware of the epistemic problems associated with knowledge but there are qualitative differences.
I agree.
But to try to uniquely slap Religious Beliefs with the "Faith" label (in a negative context) is bogus.
Everything and anything we "know" requires faith (to a greater or lesser degree) to believe it is so, not just Religious Beliefs.
That is the point I have always made about the "Faith Slam" threads and posts relative to Religious Beliefs that I've seen scores of times on this board.
1) I sometimes work with complex mathematics, including probability
2) English is not my native language, and
3) I have seen the likes of Goldie before. I have noticed they do not respond to anything I have written, not even an attempt at a refutation.
Oh yes. I have an Axiom - once you have seen how a trick works, you won't be fooled by it again. I don't know now whether Goldie keeps pulling his illogical tricks (brain in a vat is actually illogical - against Occam's razor, and there is circumstantial evidence against it) and I don't know whether he is in hopes to find some new dupes to fool or just being a nuisance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadwood
Actually your definition is just a made up as grandpa's definition.
Faith is the substance of thing(s) hope for, the evidence of thing(s) not seen.
Therefore the difference between believing and faith is that faith has a reason for what we believe, and that reason is the evidence of what we believe is true. Or as written in 1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the LORD in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
I can hardly believe that, with a straight face, you post that the evidence for faith is Faith, backed up by a scripture confirming that Faith is hoping that what you believe is true without evidence actually turns out to be true.
I simply do not get this idea of quoting scripture as though it proved something.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-29-2018 at 07:19 AM..
Faith is believing in something you really, really, really hope is true.
That's actually a great definition. I'm an atheist, yet I have faith in some things.
I fixed the water supply line to my fridge since it was leaking. When I pushed the fridge back into the cabinet, I can't tell if it is still leaking or not. Maybe I didn't install the compression fitting properly and there is a slow leak still. I'm really just not sure. I think I fixed it.
I really really really hope it is true. However, if my "faith" is misplaced, my world won't be shattered.
Faith is what you use when the evidence tells you what you don't want to be true.
Faith is the last refuge of those who have had their arguments defeated by logic and reason.
Faith is simply the practice of ignoring the supportable in favour of a desired belief.
'Having faith' allows you to break every one of the ten commandments without fear of retribution. You can also pontificate about the sins of being born gay, the sins of being born in another country, and pour scorn on the less well off, in the name of the 'Christ', of course.
You can, with faith, kill Johnny Foreigner on the end of a bayonet, blow up infidels, claim two eyes for an eye, and argue that anything written by a sun-stroke victim from the desert must be the 'Word of God.'
A wonderful thing is faith. It allows you to read all about eyes of needles and camels whilst ignoring the obscene wealth of the Church; it allows you to read about a man who hung out with twelve blokes whilst you tell other guys who hang about with blokes that they are full of sin; you can vilify paedophiles whilst turning a blind eye to Father O'Malley's little indiscretions with the choirboys; you can read about Jesus changing water into wine whilst you vilify those who drink and ignore the boozey breath of Father Jack O'Fondler.
With faith, you can readily accept that men who never have sex are the ideal people to proffer sexual advice to young boys and newly-weds, and that elderly virgins are the right kind of people to teach young girls all about sexual matters.
Yep, faith, it's just wonderful.
05-29-2018, 10:33 AM
2K5Gx2km
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
I agree.
But to try to uniquely slap Religious Beliefs with the "Faith" label (in a negative context) is bogus.
Everything and anything we "know" requires faith (to a greater or lesser degree) to believe it is so, not just Religious Beliefs.
That is the point I have always made about the "Faith Slam" threads and posts relative to Religious Beliefs that I've seen scores of times on this board.
You keep saying 'to a greater or lesser degree' without making any qualitative differences. This is where you are contradicting yourself and equivocating.
What if the greater amount is mostly faith or even all faith as opposed to the greater amount being mostly not faith - then what? They cannot both have their foundation as faith and the former cannot be on the same level of confidence as the latter. You are just slapping the non religious who categorize their beliefs as non-faith with the 'faith' label which is equally bogus - as you say.
This is not an argument about whether one can know something 100%. It is about your labelingeverything as FAITH without a shred of qualitative difference.
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