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To those who question "Well why can't they produce the golden plates (such as my evangelical secretary), I always responded, "Well why can't your produce the tablets with the Ten Commandments". Her answer was, "Well that's different".
Agree, but JS was a con man, no one says that about Moses. JS's entire history before founding this religion was conning people to survive.
Agree, but JS was a con man, no one says that about Moses. JS's entire history before founding this religion was conning people to survive.
That is that there is no evidence outside of the OT that there really was a Moses. Paul of Taurus was real, and would have made an excellent used car salesman in today's world. Just like Joseph Smith.
Agree, but JS was a con man, no one says that about Moses. JS's entire history before founding this religion was conning people to survive.
No one says that about Moses? I do. I think that Moses probably wanted power, and that much of what he did was based on that need.
Now, as far as Joseph Smith, I'm going to tell you a little story (a true one) that happened in 1959 or 1960, when I was 10 or 11. My family was from Palmyra, where Joseph Smith founded Mormonism. But we were not Mormons. In fact, at the time there were damned few Mormons due to ________________ (I'll fill that in in a minute). We took a road trip through the West in both 1959 and 1960, and we stopped in Salt Lake City for a day and wanted to visit Temple Square, mostly out of curiosity. So my grandfather parked the car and two young Mormon men noticed the license plates. At that time you could tell which county of NYS someone lived in by the license plate. For example, Wayne County drivers had plates that started with either WYN or WAN, so some similar designations. The two young missionaries (in their black pants, white shirts, and name plates) came right over and wanted to know if we were from Palmyra. My grandmother, who was Methodist was very polite and said that yes we were, but that we weren't Mormons and didn't want to talk to Mormon Missionaries. We just wanted to see Temple Square. But the young men couldn't control themselves. They started following us and peppering my grandmother with questions about why she didn't believe in Joseph Smith and Macaroni (as I called the statue on Hill Cumorah when I was a little kid). And then, two blocks later, they made the fatal mistake. They asked my grandfather, who was totally non-religious, "What do you know about Joseph Smith?" I expected my grandfather to blow a gasket, but somehow he didn't. He stopped and looked at them and said, "Well, I know he was a horse thief". With that, they finally left us alone.
And that was a pretty common belief in Palmyra back in the 1950s. I had heard that often as the reason that Joe was driven out of town. But I know that was just religious prejudice. There was no evidence that Joseph Smith was a horse thief. And I've heard that kind of religious prejudice used all my life by the majority religions against the minority religions. I don't know how many christians who really know NOTHING about Islam say that Mohammad was a child molester. I don't know if he was or not. Never cared to look into it. But I know when an unknowing christian says that, that it's religious prejudice talking
Now, I don't believe in what supposedly happened in Palmyra's "Sacred Grove", which was literally just over the drumlin from my family home. I don'e believe in what supposedly happened at Hill Cumorah, which was just a couple of miles up route 21 from my family home. But I don't hold the Mormons any more responsible for proving those things than I hold other christians responsible for proving the tablets or the flood or any other bible tales. No more. No less.
The Mormon God is just one of many, and Mormons can become A God. This differs rather significantly from Christianity, to put it mildly.
I really don't want to derail with the JS being a con man thing, I made the side comment for reasons. What I quoted myself here saying was a main point I wanted to make. For people to be of the same religion, they need to at least agree on who their GOD is. The Mormon God rules only over this planet which is in direct contradiction with the Bible.
Mormons are taught they too can be Gods over their own planets, where the Bible says there is ONE and ONLY ONE God.
I am not arguing rightness or wrongness, I am discussing whether two things are the same, which clearly they are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam
In another thread you said polygamy was not practiced originally, but um, Joseph Smith started the practice, so............
And I wanted to clear this up. How can Mormons say this was not originally part of their religion when their founding prophet is the one who made it Doctrine?
It was outlawed by the USG and the Mormon God changed his mind on the issue. Which is LOL to me.
That is another huge difference from Christianity. Our one true prophet is Jesus and no one comes after him.
I used to love for Mormons to come to the door, I had my book of Mormon in hand to show them all the ways that they deviate from what is taught in the Bible and that is fine for them, but I don't need their 'new' version of Jesus, I am good with the old.
No one says that about Moses? I do. I think that Moses probably wanted power, and that much of what he did was based on that need.
Now, as far as Joseph Smith, I'm going to tell you a little story (a true one) that happened in 1959 or 1960, when I was 10 or 11. My family was from Palmyra, where Joseph Smith founded Mormonism. But we were not Mormons. In fact, at the time there were damned few Mormons due to ________________ (I'll fill that in in a minute). We took a road trip through the West in both 1959 and 1960, and we stopped in Salt Lake City for a day and wanted to visit Temple Square, mostly out of curiosity. So my grandfather parked the car and two young Mormon men noticed the license plates. At that time you could tell which county of NYS someone lived in by the license plate. For example, Wayne County drivers had plates that started with either WYN or WAN, so some similar designations. The two young missionaries (in their black pants, white shirts, and name plates) came right over and wanted to know if we were from Palmyra. My grandmother, who was Methodist was very polite and said that yes we were, but that we weren't Mormons and didn't want to talk to Mormon Missionaries. We just wanted to see Temple Square. But the young men couldn't control themselves. They started following us and peppering my grandmother with questions about why she didn't believe in Joseph Smith and Macaroni (as I called the statue on Hill Cumorah when I was a little kid). And then, two blocks later, they made the fatal mistake. They asked my grandfather, who was totally non-religious, "What do you know about Joseph Smith?" I expected my grandfather to blow a gasket, but somehow he didn't. He stopped and looked at them and said, "Well, I know he was a horse thief". With that, they finally left us alone.
And that was a pretty common belief in Palmyra back in the 1950s. I had heard that often as the reason that Joe was driven out of town. But I know that was just religious prejudice. There was no evidence that Joseph Smith was a horse thief. And I've heard that kind of religious prejudice used all my life by the majority religions against the minority religions. I don't know how many christians who really know NOTHING about Islam say that Mohammad was a child molester. I don't know if he was or not. Never cared to look into it. But I know when an unknowing christian says that, that it's religious prejudice talking
Now, I don't believe in what supposedly happened in Palmyra's "Sacred Grove", which was literally just over the drumlin from my family home. I don'e believe in what supposedly happened at Hill Cumorah, which was just a couple of miles up route 21 from my family home. But I don't hold the Mormons any more responsible for proving those things than I hold other christians responsible for proving the tablets or the flood or any other bible tales. No more. No less.
I don't discriminate against Mormons or Muslims. But if Muslims said they were Christian I would have to say yeah no.
If I tried to say I was Muslim but I don't believe in Muhammad that would not work, would it? It's the same for Mormons. You can't place first your prophets that come after Jesus above Jesus and claim you are Christian.
The Bible clearly says that anyone who claims to be a prophet after Jesus is false. Trying to believe in the Bible and the BOM at the same time is an exercise in cognitive dissonance.
Mormons consider themselves superior. IDK why they even want to be called Christians, except to 'fit in' and be accepted.
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