Faith without any reason vs Faith without any evidence (paradise, atheism, worship)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by OzzyRules

What do "arguments" have to do with believing in God?

I'm talking about the arguments people use to support gods. When those arguments have been defeated by reason and logic, the final stronghold for the believer is 'faith'.

You could win arguments in your own mind for eternity.

The arguments are not in our mind. We win them with evidence that can be verified

But you wouldn't be one step closer to understanding the truth.

You have yet to demonstrate 'truth'. (you forgot the capital 'T')

You are just telling yourself the things you want to hear, but it doesn't make them true.

You mean like theists do?

Originally Posted by OzzyRules

People have always believed in God. What more evidence do you need?

You mean...' People have always believed in gods and the verifiable evidence shows us that the gods that people so firmly believed in in the past, are now covered in dust, sitting on the shelves marked 'Mythology'..as indeed your particular god will someday be.

[OzzyRules]

Originally Posted by Rafius

You mean like theists do?

Bingo! Now go find mirror, look into it, and think about all the things you have been saying.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by OzzyRules

Bingo! Now go find mirror, look into it, and think about all the things you have been saying.

I don't tell myself (and others) that things are true simply because I want them to be. See the difference?

[OzzyRules]

Originally Posted by Rafius

I don't tell myself (and others) that things are true simply because I want them to be. See the difference?

No. That is exactly what you are in denial about.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Rafius

I don't tell myself (and others) that things are true simply because I want them to be. See the difference?

Originally Posted by OzzyRules

No.

No. I didn't think you would.

[GoCardinals]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Faith is believing without verifiable evidence. It's the last bastion of those that have had their arguments defeated by reason and logic.

Wrong.
You don’t have a “verifiable evidence” that God does not exist YET you believe in it.

“The lack of evidence of God’s existence” is actually the last resort of Atheists to believe that God does not exist.

And thiere is always a possibility to get this wrong, because absense of evidence may not necessarily mean the evidence of absense.

1000 years ago, there was no evidence that oxygen existed - this doesn’t automatically mean that oxygen did not exist then.

[Harry Diogenes]

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

Wrong.
You don’t have a “verifiable evidence” that God does not exist YET you believe in it.

How can someone be wrong about an argument they have not made?

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

“The lack of evidence of God’s existence” is actually the last resort of Atheists to believe that God does not exist.

Last resort? What are you talking about? The lack of evidence is just one line of reason.

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

And thiere is always a possibility to get this wrong, because absense of evidence may not necessarily mean the evidence of absense.

But absence of evidence does mean we have no reason to believe. This HAS been explained to you before.

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

1000 years ago, there was no evidence that oxygen existed - this doesn’t automatically mean that oxygen did not exist then.

And? 1000 years ago, there was no evidence that phlogiston existed.

[Mightyqueen801]

Thread title revised for clarity of intent per OP request.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

1000 years ago, there was no evidence that oxygen existed - this doesn’t automatically mean that oxygen did not exist then.

Yup...Electricity was there all the time when cavemen were around.Right there..if they would have connected the dots.
Germs, too! Not discovered till the 1880's!
God can't be placed under a microscope, darn. Spirit is spirit and can be experienced directly, tho.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yup...Electricity was there all the time when cavemen were around.Right there..if they would have connected the dots.
Germs, too! Not discovered till the 1880's!
God can't be placed under a microscope, darn. Spirit is spirit and can be experienced directly, tho.

the universe is quantum computing us ... thats a brute fact (to steal a phrase)
the universe might know how its running.