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of course, it's true that all racial types have done their own bit of slavery
There are only two created human being races: Adam, and Israel. The Firstborn in Israel is Jesus, the Christ, come in flesh of that second Man creation, and people born of His Living Spirit are "Christians", now, but will be "Israel" when they receive the regeneration of the Adam flesh body at the time it is resurrected and or changed.
There are tribes descended from Adam, and they got divided by tongues, and not by color.
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
But the thread is about the curse of Ham, and how that may or may not underpin any justification of slavery carried on by people who believe the Bible. You make a good point that there could have been 'racial' admixture in Noah's family - if one believes the story. However, the question, I feel is that how the Hebrews, lacking any such scientific knowledge, used their ideas that the present races all descended colour (if I may put it that way) breeding colour from the sons of Noah and whether, if so, that could have underpinned their ideas about their relations to their god and with other tribes and nations and also, how that might have been used to justify enslavement as practiced by Europeans.
There is absolutely no Bible doctrine that has slavery justified by color of the skin, anywhere. It is total fabrication to even believe that they enslaved Canaanites, when the book of Jasher shows that many Canaanite women became wives of the twelve sons of Jacob and of their sons, also.
Nebuchadnezzar, a Canaanite, was the king of kings of the entire globe, when he captured Israel, and Israel became subject to his kingdom and to him -before the Medes and Persians captured Babylon.
Abraham married a Canaanite woman, Keturah, after Sarah died.
There were several Canaanite wives chosen by the sons and grandsons and so on, of Jacob.
Rahab was a Canaanite, and she married Salmon, an Israelite, and became the ancestress of King David and of Jesus the Christ, through His new creation body of flesh which He donned at the incarnation, being born out of the womb of Mary.
Believe me, lady, slavery does not preclude the enslavers taking the womenfolk as their 'wives'. However, that is not really my point. It was that the 'Ham' story might have served the political purpose of making God declare the very people (Caananites) that the hebrews were trying to defeat as their slaves. However, as I say, it looks like Caanan was declared the slave of Javan whose descendents were the 'greeks' and thus the Romans and europeans, which can be used by the Westerners to justify enslaving Africans.
But, as I say, it didn't fit my theory so I shall have to think again.
On a side note, I have always wondered why Israel's god did not simply give Egypt to them. After all, Egypt was the most powerful empire around in those days, yet instead of mighty Egypt that supposedly enslaved them, he has them wander in a desert/wilderness for 40 years before ordering them to massacre the Canaanites under the commander, Joshua.
Thoughts?
If God brought the Jews out of bondage of Eygpt, into the wilderness....then bondage is not something God wants people to be in.
Again if we read the whole word out of the Bible..on the Canaanites and Canaan....we find God saying that He will move them off the lands , in his own way, in his own time...to Moses....then patience is required learning with God.
So to Covet the land of Canaan...breaks a commandment of God.
To kill the Canaanites...also breaks a commandment of God.
And to enslave and force others to do their bidding (Slavery) is being like the verything God liberated them from....
So are Jews any better than Eygptians?...if this is what was done?
And then we have the IDOL of Engraven Images...still in use today...as was with the Eygptians, and with Rome and Cesaer....and the Jews brought that with them too!
So why did God make them live in the wilderness 40 years?
To teach them how the eco systems work....and how God is tied to that system of simplicity and abundance when we follow the first instructions sinlessly and sow seeds!..."Get the seeds from Canaan, and spy out the lands, Bring the seeds back to the wilderness...and restore it to its rightful placement....to reverse the curse of death.....
The forty year wondering was to purge sin from them all.
And to make sure all those who sinned by the holy mountain were weeded out of existance, and the new generation of people were clean and sinless....so they could reverse the curse of death...Adam and Eve brought on the world....By restoring something sinlessly to its rightful placement.
But as soon as they were given liberty to move into Canaan and share it...or sp y it out...or for God to move on those who lived in that land as sinners...so no sin is incurred by any...God has to move on his word....the People went out and started murdering and pillaging, and so on....all the commandments are broken by what they did do to take the land...GOD said he would Give them....
Why do they need to take the land in war and attrosities...if God is Going to Give it to them clean?
And if God is against slavery...why do they still to this day enslave people under that Idol God said not to make, or have before him?
To my mind someone is not listening to God at all...wonder why?
And hence it continues....oppressing, sanctioning, and warfare...under that IDOL......God said not to have before him.
Wonder why?...WTC 9/11....is the same thing God did at the holy mountain when they made a demigod of Gold and silver and gave up humansacrifices to it....Just before Moses came down from the mountain with the laws Of God.
Same thing, different setting and different time line...symbolically the same!
Some things never change!...and now they ask for Humansacrifices into wars with no merits or truths...to uphold and support, and protect a way of life or the IDOLS way of Life.....economics...is like the first beast which gives it its power....
Amen?...if they would of taken the seeds from Canann and brought them back to the wilderness, with God who made everything in six days....and all of them helping God....how long would it take to turn the wilderness into a Garden Paradise?
No one gets murdered, no one covets the others lands, and no wars.....
I think that is the moral of the story no one thinks about, because no one believes God can do what it says in the Bible about him being the creator of everything...and that he made humans to be helpers of the Garden....
Now look at the world in chaos...in war...in hatred...in violation of those laws of God, and the covenants, ,,,,as this world is now being polluted and defiled and in constant sins and evils......wonder why?
Now if we follow the Old testement...and we take the word of God litterally in some respect out of...Genesis 9:3 "I Give you everything"...which also is part of the Canaan / "Go into Canaan and take the seeds" and they bring back that seed or seeds to the wilderness (Starting from almost zero with God) and they being sinless...and having the seed which God instructed them to get, and on land no body wanted...and God brings the waters, and the powers to the wilderness...and they all sow those seeds sinlessly...and Restore EDEN....and become Like God....and share everything..... everything!!!!!!......what kind of a world would this be today if as a model that was done to the letter of the law of God, was done...and it became a paradise, and could be redone all over the world in multiplication, and sharing...as was asked By God we do...in Genesis....then this world would be a far cry from what it is today....
Prohibition of certain plants...vital plants....causes corruption of the natural eco systems!...by removing a food souce, and a vibration, a fractal, and a filter ...and also a LIVING THING>....
And when these systems are threatened by human stupidity....they (Our Neighbours)(All Living things) as a Kingdom, rise against us, because we no longer respect them or care for them!
Perhaps in the stupidity of Human endevours and industrialized madness, to Pollute and destroy Planet Earth's natural eco systems, to instill a unnatural bent system, in such a blatant detramental direction knowingly...Not for the betterment of ALL life...but for the wealth that is more important than human welfare and or health.....we can then see the cause and effect of that stupitiy now coming to be, and the wrath of that Kingdom of God becoming harder to ignor, or just cast aside as coincidence!...as those things now show sign of being in some regard as valid truth!
Global warning or Global warming?....and it is Partly due to our stupidity in polluting the planet with dead blood called fossil fuels...
It was once called Global warming, but they changed it to.... climate change...but they could not cover the parallels of Global warning!
If it continues down this path of warfare and pollution...under that Idol...and allowing all kinds of evils and sins to be ....so they can profit off the detramentals that insue....
What Kind of Human estate is that we are supporting with the taxed hand?
(Some one might say to the other....to stop the sins and errors, we have to find the root cause.
The other will say ...If we kill the root we prosper nothing in wealth.
But the first will then say, We will have peace, health , and happiness under God's Promise, If we fulfill and follow his will and word....and the lands will become abundantly Giving and safe....and no more sins will be...and death will be no more.
The other will say, there is no God, there is no promise, and $$$$ makes the world Go round.
The one will say but it is going round backwards in sin, and the opposite will apply itself to that as cause and effect!)
GLOBAL WARNING IT IS!
Who would of thunk it?...and will they ever learn or change what needs to be changed....can humans share everything?
Or does selfishness and engraven idolic metal madness rule over everyone?
Money does not feed anyone!...That is a truth of truth....it is undeniable....But a seed gives us Hope!
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Believe me, lady, slavery does not preclude the enslavers taking the womenfolk as their 'wives'. .
Rahab was never a slave when Salmon took her as a wife.
Keturah was never a slave when Abraham married her, a Canaanite. Eliuram was never a slave, when Reuben took her, a Canaanite, as wife. Alivath was never a Canaanite when Judah took her, a Canaanite as a wife.
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Jasher 25:1 And it was at that time that Abraham again took a wife in his old age, and her name was Keturah, from the land of Canaan. 1
Jasher 45
And it was at that time in that year, which is the year of Joseph's going down to Egypt after his brothers had sold him, that Reuben the son of Jacob went to Timnah and took unto him for a wife Eliuram, the daughter of Avi the Canaanite, and he came to her.
4 And Judah went at that time to Adulam, and he came to a man of Adulam, and his name was Hirah, and Judah saw there the daughter of a man from Canaan, and her name was Aliyath, the daughter of Shua, and he took her, and came to her, and Aliyath bare unto Judah, Er, Onan and Shiloh; three sons.
There are more. The point is that the Canaanites were not the slaves of Israel, and Israel became enslaved by a Canaanite, Nebuchadnezzar.
Abraham's very good friends, the canaanites Aner, Eshkol and Mamre, among whom Abraham dwelled, were to provide a wife from their daughters for Isaac if the servant sent to Haran could not find a wife from among Abraham's family for Isaac.
Solomon's very good buddy, Hiram, the king of Tyre, was a Canaanite.
1Ki 5:12 And the LORD gave Solomon wisdom, as he promised him: and there was peace between Hiram and Solomon; and they two made a league together.
Another Tyrian, Hiram, the son of a widow in Israel who had been married to a Canaanite man, was one of the workers hired to help construct the temple. 1Ki 7:13 ¶ And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre. Ki 7:14 He [was] a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali, and his father [was] a man of Tyre, a worker in brass: and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass. And he came to king Solomon, and wrought all his work.
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