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So if this story is true then of course Jesus is in human form but what form is satan in if he's able to go out on a field trip with Jesus? Is he supposed to be in human form as well? And how did they get there? There's no high mountain ranges near where Jesus was from so if they went someplace like Mount Everest or whatever then they must have had some means of transportation. I really can't make much sense out of the whole story when you really stop and think about it.
I am not sure Satan or Jesus would need to be in human form. In other mythology tails (from Greek) the gods came in the form of animals. Seems it made it easier to seduce the women back than. I guess as long as you are spinning a tale you could make them anything you wanted to, and let them zoom anywhere their minds could take them. Just need to remember it is fiction, not fact.
Satan is just a fallen angel. An angel is a "heavenly messenger". So by the definition they need to have been given the ability to appear both to God and to man. So the form they appear to man is always human.
But you must follow the Bible's statement as true that Satan has the SUPERNATURAL POWER (evidently not only reserved to God Almighty) to present to the eyes of Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, even though they could not possibly be visible by the laws of nature from any particular actual mountain found at that time (1c AD) on the surface of the entire Earth, not the mention that because the Earth is a SPHERE, such a view is impossible.
Do you believe that Satan the Fallen Angel has such supernatural power? If so, then Satan would qualify as a "minor god" as worshipped among the Greeks and Romans. Christianity would therefore accuratley be termed a polytheistic religion, or at least a religion that postulates a polytheistic universe!
If you don't accept this idea about the supernatural powers of Satan, then you must believe that the story is merely a "tall tale".
Actually I'm more curious as to why we should abandon the literal interpretation of this phrase when there is so much to be taken "literally" that is surmised through guess work. It's a genuine question and I'm not trying to troll the board. I do not know of a mountain that one can stand atop and see all the nations of the world. That would mean Jesus and Satan were looking at the Mayan and Aztec Empires, the Chinese dynasties, the Australian aborigines and the North American Indians. I've been up to about 42,000 feet in an airplane and I was able to see four states at one point (or so I was told). Even astronauts can't see all the nations of the world at once. So, unless Jesus and Satan went into orbit around Earth for a period of several hours I fail to see how this is possible??
Obviously, it is meant to be a metaphor and not to be taken literally, but why do those who take the bible literally so easily discard this? After all, if it weren't a REAL mountain and it was only a metaphor than just how far are you willing to go??
The only other situation I can imagine the two of them seeing the distant lands would be if the writers of the Bible assumed the Earth was flat. So, either the mountain is a metaphor but that makes me curious as to why we should use this as a metaphor and not other things. Or, the writers of the Bible thought the Earth was flat, which still means it was a metaphor and is even more greatly disproven of why we should take things literally, or perhaps the Bible is meant as a metaphor and not to be taken 100% literally??
Hello there:
Wasn't there a fasting period as in Jesus had not eaten for 40 days and 40 nights? Go without food for 40 days, I betcha you be seeing allot of things you hadn't ever seen before.
When you sleep and dream are those visions, or symbols with greater meaning? Or is it an experience in which you take to be literal. Just curious. It's a Carl Jung thingy here.
Also do you stay up late night wondering all of this, or is this just something that rolled up off the top of your lil head?
I hope you take these comments/questions within the cander tone they were meant to have and trust I doubt very seriously I should even quit my day job and go into comedy. However...
I think Jesus saw the nations as those who have eyes today are able to conceptualize life with a greater understanding through the visions of visionaries. As I can see the world today in the mounts upon mounts of a massive form of confusion that is leading us right down the path that of the Dinosaur's.
Yes, I can see the nations and I don't need to be at the top of a mountain to help me with that.
It is good to leave you a note and food for more thought.
Wasn't there a fasting period as in Jesus had not eaten for 40 days and 40 nights? Go without food for 40 days, I betcha you be seeing allot of things you hadn't ever seen before.
Which makes me wonder that since Jesus was a human could he have actually survived in the Middle Eastern desert for forty days without food? He was human enough to be killed on a cross so I don't see how hunger and starvation wouldn't have killed him. I suppose it's possible... but I find it highly unlikely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
When you sleep and dream are those visions, or symbols with greater meaning? Or is it an experience in which you take to be literal. Just curious. It's a Carl Jung thingy here.
If you're asking me personally... My opinion of dreams is that it is your mind's way of "filing" things. In other words, all of the things that your brain takes in throughout the day (both conscious and sub-conscious) are laid out like a bunch of scattered papers. Dreaming is the mind's way of sorting all of that information into nice, neat categorizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
Also do you stay up late night wondering all of this, or is this just something that rolled up off the top of your lil head?
I had a dream. No, I'm only kidding. Ummm... this one just popped off the top of my head. Coffee is an amazing thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell
I think Jesus saw the nations as those who have eyes today are able to conceptualize life with a greater understanding through the visions of visionaries. As I can see the world today in the mounts upon mounts of a massive form of confusion that is leading us right down the path that of the Dinosaur's.
Yes, I can see the nations and I don't need to be at the top of a mountain to help me with that.
It is good to leave you a note and food for more thought.
Take care and I will be on my way again...
Well, I can understand that perspective but I'm more concerned with those who feel the Bible should be taken literally. The Bible says they went up to a mountain and saw the nations of the world. I mean, it doesn't get any clearer than that and so it seems to me that the frame of thought in writing the Bible was indeed that the Earth was flat thereby allowing them to climb to the top of the mountain and view the nations of the world. This is why I have a problem with people taking the Bible literally. OBVIOUSLY if the writers were inspired by God they wouldn't have made that egregious mistake unless of course the Bible isn't meant to be taken 100% literally.
Which makes me wonder that since Jesus was a human could he have actually survived in the Middle Eastern desert for forty days without food? He was human enough to be killed on a cross so I don't see how hunger and starvation wouldn't have killed him. I suppose it's possible... but I find it highly unlikely.
He allowed the Cross to take Him, He could lay down His life and take it up. No man had the power to take it from Him. As well, He did rise and still lives.
Quote:
Well, I can understand that perspective but I'm more concerned with those who feel the Bible should be taken literally. The Bible says they went up to a mountain and saw the nations of the world. I mean, it doesn't get any clearer than that and so it seems to me that the frame of thought in writing the Bible was indeed that the Earth was flat thereby allowing them to climb to the top of the mountain and view the nations of the world. This is why I have a problem with people taking the Bible literally. OBVIOUSLY if the writers were inspired by God they wouldn't have made that egregious mistake unless of course the Bible isn't meant to be taken 100% literally.
Sure why not, symbols are throughout the scriptures, the high mountain could be a place of power. It could be a spiritual mountain, it could be an actual mountain and the "All" was mistranslated or puffery....
The meat of the lesson is that if one grows to the point of faith, they will be tempted with Power, Wealth, and Fame... the three great tests of Earth school for the gods.
There is several instances in the bible where angels where able to take people places.
I could definitely become converted to Christianity if angels were able to whisk me from Nashville to Montana over the Christmas holidays and I could avoid the stress and delays in jam packed airports. Afterall, it is Christ's birthday, not just some vacation, and I'd be more than happy to announce my conversion publicly and even introduce my new friends, the angels, to reporters. This would be one of the most famous news conferences in history and atheists would be lining up all over the world to arrange their own trip and subsequent conversion.
I could definitely become converted to Christianity if angels were able to whisk me from Nashville to Montana over the Christmas holidays and I could avoid the stress and delays in jam packed airports. Afterall, it is Christ's birthday, not just some vacation, and I'd be more than happy to announce my conversion publicly and even introduce my new friends, the angels, to reporters. This would be one of the most famous news conferences in history and atheists would be lining up all over the world to arrange their own trip and subsequent conversion.
Be careful they may get a third world air line named angles, and you will be flying with chickens, pigs, and screaming children. Worst yet you may end up in one of those mid western corn fields. Sort of sounds like my last flight. LOL
Which makes me wonder that since Jesus was a human could he have actually survived in the Middle Eastern desert for forty days without food? He was human enough to be killed on a cross so I don't see how hunger and starvation wouldn't have killed him. I suppose it's possible... but I find it highly unlikely.
If you're asking me personally... My opinion of dreams is that it is your mind's way of "filing" things. In other words, all of the things that your brain takes in throughout the day (both conscious and sub-conscious) are laid out like a bunch of scattered papers. Dreaming is the mind's way of sorting all of that information into nice, neat categorizations.
I had a dream. No, I'm only kidding. Ummm... this one just popped off the top of my head. Coffee is an amazing thing.
Well, I can understand that perspective but I'm more concerned with those who feel the Bible should be taken literally. The Bible says they went up to a mountain and saw the nations of the world. I mean, it doesn't get any clearer than that and so it seems to me that the frame of thought in writing the Bible was indeed that the Earth was flat thereby allowing them to climb to the top of the mountain and view the nations of the world. This is why I have a problem with people taking the Bible literally. OBVIOUSLY if the writers were inspired by God they wouldn't have made that egregious mistake unless of course the Bible isn't meant to be taken 100% literally.
Lets see here. I'm brain dead here so as to reply well, so let's see here. I'll put you in italics.
Coffee is an amazing thing (you wrote)
Yes it is. It just flows through my veins at a constant.
My opinion of dreams is that it is your mind's way of "filing" things.(you wrote)
For me my dreams are in roads to a book or whatever. Like if I dream of a read headed freckled faced girl, which I did recently, she could become a character in a book. I have heard, dreams are creative moments of the mind, to that which can't be during the course of our busy day.
Well, I can understand that perspective but I'm more concerned with those who feel the Bible should be taken literally. (you wrote)
I know that concern and I can so appreciate it. It has also been said and to this I do believe to be true, the Bible is the truest form of symbolism within our scope of our literature. I hope this helps. It doesn't help those who do take it literally and perhaps it wasn't meant to. Only but a few, remember that will enter the kingdom of Heaven. (I am repeating here, don't shoot the messenger and it is probably in Acts, Romans...I don't know)
Also back to your "popped in off the top of your head", I have had that happen for me as well. Allot of times, I have no place throw it out to and that can drive a person be bonkers.
Here you have a great avenue of expression as long as we can keep it, our expressions sane.
For some reason Mt. Zion just popped into my head. Any one know what happened on Mt. Zion?
Its the place of the pure in heart.
godspeed,
freedom
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